Sunray Stealth X-12 pinpointing question

[godisnum1]

Well I hit the beach yesterday for a little while until sunset. Outside of the cold, there was another thing that was absolutely driving me NUTS... and that's pinpointing with this sweet coil!! Almost every hole I dig seems to be way larger than it should.

As I've stated elsewhere, I'm really used to using my concentric coil on my White's machine. Pinpointing with that couldn't possibly have been even easier. I got to the point where I was more accurate without even using the pinpoint trigger...

But with this DD coil, I'm not 100% sure where the target is. I've been sweeping the coil until I get the strongest target signal directly in the middle of the coil, then I work my coil back off of the target until the sound drops. Even so, I still end up digging a huge mess of a hole in the sand. And even with the finds that I located... when I placed them on the ground, the target would give a signal before the front of the coil was even over the target. But once it got under the front of the coil, the sound switched to a slightly different signal. This was with quarters, as well as trash.

The detector itself (Minelab Explorer XS) is an excellent detector... it about wore me out though yesterday, because I dug down to about (no joke!) 18 to 20 inches on an OLD crushed can. So at least I know it's doing what it's supposed to... but pinpointing with that coil has got me frustrated as all get out!!!!

Someone, please be so kind to help me understand how to become a little more proficient with this coil.
Any visuals (i.e. photos, videos, or diagrams) you might be able to produce would help me as well.

Thanks!!

Bran <><

 

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[Iron Patch]

Now you fully realize why even after 9 years I say the probe is a must have for land digs, especially a lawn type setting. But the good news is you have lots of room for improvement!

First question.... Are you pp'ing in pp mode, or regular operation? Both are a little different, but easy to explain.

PS... Brushing your coil while pp'ing might be problem #1.

 

[godisnum1]

Well I figured out a long time ago that a probe was essential... even when I'm able to pinpoint accurately (with my White's), I still rely heavily on my probe to keep me from wasting time and getting on to the next signal. Still getting used to my Sunray though, because I can't tell if it doesn't get as much depth as my Vibraprobe, or if my Explorer is just picking up deeper signals. I'm thinking it's the latter though, to be honest...

I'm pinpointing in regular mode. The pinpointing mode doesn't seem to make it any easier, at least for me.
And I normally am careful not to brush the ground with my coils when pinpointing... but I was even more careful yesterday because I took the coil cover off to hunt the beach, because it's kinda flimsy and I didn't want it to come off and blow down the beach.

Bran <><

 

[Iron Patch]

Well I figured out a long time ago that a probe was essential... even when I'm able to pinpoint accurately (with my White's), I still rely heavily on my probe to keep me from wasting time and getting on to the next signal. Still getting used to my Sunray though, because I can't tell if it doesn't get as much depth as my Vibraprobe, or if my Explorer is just picking up deeper signals. I'm thinking it's the latter though, to be honest...

I'm pinpointing in regular mode. The pinpointing mode doesn't seem to make it any easier, at least for me.
And I normally am careful not to brush the ground with my coils when pinpointing... but I was even more careful yesterday because I took the coil cover off to hunt the beach, because it's kinda flimsy and I didn't want it to come off and blow down the beach.

Bran <><

Pinpoint in regular mode is all about hitting the target from different directions. The more you X it, and pay attention, the easier it should be. Modern larger junk will often sound off to one side as it's just the nature of the beast. Try airtesting a few pieces of the scrap you found and see how they pp. It may ease your frustration a little seeing how some stuff just seems to sound off better on one side of the coil.

You should try the PP mode, and can do it right at home. When you hit the pp, all you do is narrow the signal the same way you did on your concentric coil, but what is different about the Explorer, is once you have the side to side location narrowed down, you can use a front to to back movement to further narrow it down. After a few front and back movements you hit it side to side again, and basically alternate giving you the exact location of the target. It's longer to write than it is to do, which is only a matter of seconds once you get used to it.

A big coil if too close to the ground will make the target appear larger, and harder to PP. Using the PP mode will also eliminate this problem as it's just a shorter quick low tone beep.

 

[godisnum1]

Ok, that makes sense... so in pp mode, where would the target be located under my coil? Center, or in the front?
Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Bran <><

 

[Iron Patch]

Ok, that makes sense... so in pp mode, where would the target be located under my coil? Center, or in the front?
Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Bran <><

Different coils tend to have different hot spots, and I only used that particular one for a couple hunts so can't say. It doesn't matter anyway, if you try the pp mode like I described it really doesn't matter where the hot spot is because you'll figure it out. Playing a bit with a target on the surface will answer that question and show you how easy it is. Also try in regular mode and see how being very close does make it more difficult to pp.

 

[Iron Patch]

PS... at the beach it wouldn't be uncommon to find deep targets that the PP won't help much on. For those you have no choice but to X the target.

 

[godisnum1]

Cool... thanks so much for all the advice!! I'll try out the pp mode, but I'm thinking I might prefer to X my targets instead... we'll see!

Bran <><

 

[Iron Patch]

Cool... thanks so much for all the advice!! I'll try out the pp mode, but I'm thinking I might prefer to X my targets instead... we'll see!

Bran <><

I started out using the pp, but after a while I found it fairly easy to just hit the target from different directions. You'll get used to it and will soon be an after thought.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

With a DD coil you have to pinpoint by twisting the coil 90º and re-sweeping the target. Unlike the concentric you had the DD has a long but narrow "sweet spot" and by giving the coil a quarter turn you can pinpoint the target much, much better. A further trick is to lift the coil while sweeping to help with depth and object size.

Practice focusing on a surface feature (blade of grass, leaf, etc) at the "beep" spot and then sweeping from a perpendicular direction to fine tune the surface spot in your vision. Like dead reckoning with latitude and longitude. I have got it down so I can sweep and resweep and usually turn a 2" x 2" sod flap lid on my plug that a coin will be under without even using the pinpoint mode.

 

[godisnum1]

With a DD coil you have to pinpoint by twisting the coil 90º and re-sweeping the target. Unlike the concentric you had the DD has a long but narrow "sweet spot" and by giving the coil a quarter turn you can pinpoint the target much, much better. A further trick is to lift the coil while sweeping to help with depth and object size.

Practice focusing on a surface feature (blade of grass, leaf, etc) at the "beep" spot and then sweeping from a perpendicular direction to fine tune the surface spot in your vision. Like dead reckoning with latitude and longitude. I have got it down so I can sweep and resweep and usually turn a 2" x 2" sod flap lid on my plug that a coin will be under without even using the pinpoint mode.

Wow, you seem to know the in's & out's well!!? I will certainly take your advice and put this information to use the next time I am out! Thank you for offering it so freely... as Edmond Dantès so memorably said, "King's to you."

Bran <><

 

[Born2Dtect]

GIN1,
I went from a Whites IDX Pro to a Minelab II. I think part of your problems is the general differences of the concentric and DD coils, especially while pin pointing. You basically know about the Whites concentric coil. The DD coil is a different animal. As Charlie P. touch on the DD coil has a pattern similar to if you wiped a ruler across the ground. You get a long narrow pattern under the center with very little round to almost the edge of the coil. I assume you read how to pin point in you manual. Put detector in PP mode go over the target visually locate where sound is loudest, turn detector coil 90 degrees in the same plane (keep flat to ground) and move noting loudest again. Where they cross is the target. Done correctly this can be deadly accurate on most targets.

An alternate and quicker way is the wiggle method as it is called. While in normal detecting mode cross the coil back and forth tightly over the target while slowly pulling the coil a little more towards you (using the toe of the coil) until the sound is gone. The target should be near the edge in line with the wiper /center of the coil. It may be a little closer/under or away/not under to you. With practice you can get a good idea of the exact location. You can also push the coil away from you instead of pulling and use the heel of the coil (closer to you).

I can hit targets with a brass probe at 3 inches 9 times out of 10 using either method most of the time. Practice makes perfect. A good park, beach, or play area with a lot of targets is a good place to start. If you cannot find one, make a target test garden, I,ll leave the specifics up to you.

Ed D.

 

[godisnum1]

GIN1,
I went from a Whites IDX Pro to a Minelab II. I think part of your problems is the general differences of the concentric and DD coils, especially while pin pointing. You basically know about the Whites concentric coil. The DD coil is a different animal. As Charlie P. touch on the DD coil has a pattern similar to if you wiped a ruler across the ground. You get a long narrow pattern under the center with very little round to almost the edge of the coil. I assume you read how to pin point in you manual. Put detector in PP mode go over the target visually locate where sound is loudest, turn detector coil 90 degrees in the same plane (keep flat to ground) and move noting loudest again. Where they cross is the target. Done correctly this can be deadly accurate on most targets.

An alternate and quicker way is the wiggle method as it is called. While in normal detecting mode cross the coil back and forth tightly over the target while slowly pulling the coil a little more towards you (using the toe of the coil) until the sound is gone. The target should be near the edge in line with the wiper /center of the coil. It may be a little closer/under or away/not under to you. With practice you can get a good idea of the exact location. You can also push the coil away from you instead of pulling and use the heel of the coil (closer to you).

I can hit targets with a brass probe at 3 inches 9 times out of 10 using either method most of the time. Practice makes perfect. A good park, beach, or play area with a lot of targets is a good place to start. If you cannot find one, make a target test garden, I,ll leave the specifics up to you.

Ed D.

Thanks for the advice Ed! I think the method I now use the most when I go to the beach is the "wiggle method"... leaving the target at the top, middle of the coil. The first time I went out, I didn't realize that it really was like a ruler where the target sounds, so I was digging LARGE holes because after quickly reading through the manual and Sabisch book, I guess I missed the differences with the DD coil vs concentric. But trust me, I've figured it out QUICKLY after a few people on here gave me pinpointers on using my coil & detector. Next thing I've got to do is get these settings someone sent me for using the detector on the beach BEFORE I head down to Anna Maria Island this Saturday to meet up with a group of T-Net folks!
I'm slowly getting the hang of my detector... the settings might be my next challenge. But I'm sure I'll get those down eventually too.
It's sort of an overload for me when I go over all of the books and info in regards to this detector. It sure is different....

Bran <><

 

[Iron Patch]

GIN1,
I went from a Whites IDX Pro to a Minelab II. I think part of your problems is the general differences of the concentric and DD coils, especially while pin pointing. You basically know about the Whites concentric coil. The DD coil is a different animal. As Charlie P. touch on the DD coil has a pattern similar to if you wiped a ruler across the ground. You get a long narrow pattern under the center with very little round to almost the edge of the coil. I assume you read how to pin point in you manual. Put detector in PP mode go over the target visually locate where sound is loudest, turn detector coil 90 degrees in the same plane (keep flat to ground) and move noting loudest again. Where they cross is the target. Done correctly this can be deadly accurate on most targets.

An alternate and quicker way is the wiggle method as it is called. While in normal detecting mode cross the coil back and forth tightly over the target while slowly pulling the coil a little more towards you (using the toe of the coil) until the sound is gone. The target should be near the edge in line with the wiper /center of the coil. It may be a little closer/under or away/not under to you. With practice you can get a good idea of the exact location. You can also push the coil away from you instead of pulling and use the heel of the coil (closer to you).

I can hit targets with a brass probe at 3 inches 9 times out of 10 using either method most of the time. Practice makes perfect. A good park, beach, or play area with a lot of targets is a good place to start. If you cannot find one, make a target test garden, I,ll leave the specifics up to you.

Ed D.

Thanks for the advice Ed! I think the method I now use the most when I go to the beach is the "wiggle method"... leaving the target at the top, middle of the coil. The first time I went out, I didn't realize that it really was like a ruler where the target sounds, so I was digging LARGE holes because after quickly reading through the manual and Sabisch book, I guess I missed the differences with the DD coil vs concentric. But trust me, I've figured it out QUICKLY after a few people on here gave me pinpointers on using my coil & detector. Next thing I've got to do is get these settings someone sent me for using the detector on the beach BEFORE I head down to Anna Maria Island this Saturday to meet up with a group of T-Net folks!
I'm slowly getting the hang of my detector... the settings might be my next challenge. But I'm sure I'll get those down eventually too.
It's sort of an overload for me when I go over all of the books and info in regards to this detector. It sure is different....

Bran <><

You must be believing everything you hear from the people who don't know how to use the detector.... because settings are as easy as a $200 detector from radio shack. You might have to make yourself familiar with what each setting does, but by no means is it difficult.

 

[godisnum1]

GIN1,
I went from a Whites IDX Pro to a Minelab II. I think part of your problems is the general differences of the concentric and DD coils, especially while pin pointing. You basically know about the Whites concentric coil. The DD coil is a different animal. As Charlie P. touch on the DD coil has a pattern similar to if you wiped a ruler across the ground. You get a long narrow pattern under the center with very little round to almost the edge of the coil. I assume you read how to pin point in you manual. Put detector in PP mode go over the target visually locate where sound is loudest, turn detector coil 90 degrees in the same plane (keep flat to ground) and move noting loudest again. Where they cross is the target. Done correctly this can be deadly accurate on most targets.

An alternate and quicker way is the wiggle method as it is called. While in normal detecting mode cross the coil back and forth tightly over the target while slowly pulling the coil a little more towards you (using the toe of the coil) until the sound is gone. The target should be near the edge in line with the wiper /center of the coil. It may be a little closer/under or away/not under to you. With practice you can get a good idea of the exact location. You can also push the coil away from you instead of pulling and use the heel of the coil (closer to you).

I can hit targets with a brass probe at 3 inches 9 times out of 10 using either method most of the time. Practice makes perfect. A good park, beach, or play area with a lot of targets is a good place to start. If you cannot find one, make a target test garden, I,ll leave the specifics up to you.

Ed D.

Thanks for the advice Ed! I think the method I now use the most when I go to the beach is the "wiggle method"... leaving the target at the top, middle of the coil. The first time I went out, I didn't realize that it really was like a ruler where the target sounds, so I was digging LARGE holes because after quickly reading through the manual and Sabisch book, I guess I missed the differences with the DD coil vs concentric. But trust me, I've figured it out QUICKLY after a few people on here gave me pinpointers on using my coil & detector. Next thing I've got to do is get these settings someone sent me for using the detector on the beach BEFORE I head down to Anna Maria Island this Saturday to meet up with a group of T-Net folks!
I'm slowly getting the hang of my detector... the settings might be my next challenge. But I'm sure I'll get those down eventually too.
It's sort of an overload for me when I go over all of the books and info in regards to this detector. It sure is different....

Bran <><

You must be believing everything you hear from the people who don't know how to use the detector.... because settings are as easy as a $200 detector from radio shack. You might have to make yourself familiar with what each setting does, but by no means is it difficult.

Not that it's impossible, just that it has a steep learning curve for some. Of course, I don't get out every single day like alot of people are able to do... just because of work & life... but I know it's not impossible. And just like any detector you use and learn, eventually you get to the point where it's effortless. But even so, I bet anyone can look back to when they first started using it and it felt a little daunting. Actually, that's anything in life that you're not familiar with really... new jobs, new families, new friends, losing close friends & family... eventually, with time, it all comes around and you get the hang of things.

Bran <><

 

[Iron Patch]

GIN1,
I went from a Whites IDX Pro to a Minelab II. I think part of your problems is the general differences of the concentric and DD coils, especially while pin pointing. You basically know about the Whites concentric coil. The DD coil is a different animal. As Charlie P. touch on the DD coil has a pattern similar to if you wiped a ruler across the ground. You get a long narrow pattern under the center with very little round to almost the edge of the coil. I assume you read how to pin point in you manual. Put detector in PP mode go over the target visually locate where sound is loudest, turn detector coil 90 degrees in the same plane (keep flat to ground) and move noting loudest again. Where they cross is the target. Done correctly this can be deadly accurate on most targets.

An alternate and quicker way is the wiggle method as it is called. While in normal detecting mode cross the coil back and forth tightly over the target while slowly pulling the coil a little more towards you (using the toe of the coil) until the sound is gone. The target should be near the edge in line with the wiper /center of the coil. It may be a little closer/under or away/not under to you. With practice you can get a good idea of the exact location. You can also push the coil away from you instead of pulling and use the heel of the coil (closer to you).

I can hit targets with a brass probe at 3 inches 9 times out of 10 using either method most of the time. Practice makes perfect. A good park, beach, or play area with a lot of targets is a good place to start. If you cannot find one, make a target test garden, I,ll leave the specifics up to you.

Ed D.

Thanks for the advice Ed! I think the method I now use the most when I go to the beach is the "wiggle method"... leaving the target at the top, middle of the coil. The first time I went out, I didn't realize that it really was like a ruler where the target sounds, so I was digging LARGE holes because after quickly reading through the manual and Sabisch book, I guess I missed the differences with the DD coil vs concentric. But trust me, I've figured it out QUICKLY after a few people on here gave me pinpointers on using my coil & detector. Next thing I've got to do is get these settings someone sent me for using the detector on the beach BEFORE I head down to Anna Maria Island this Saturday to meet up with a group of T-Net folks!
I'm slowly getting the hang of my detector... the settings might be my next challenge. But I'm sure I'll get those down eventually too.
It's sort of an overload for me when I go over all of the books and info in regards to this detector. It sure is different....

Bran <><

You must be believing everything you hear from the people who don't know how to use the detector.... because settings are as easy as a $200 detector from radio shack. You might have to make yourself familiar with what each setting does, but by no means is it difficult.

Not that it's impossible, just that it has a steep learning curve for some. Of course, I don't get out every single day like alot of people are able to do... just because of work & life... but I know it's not impossible. And just like any detector you use and learn, eventually you get to the point where it's effortless. But even so, I bet anyone can look back to when they first started using it and it felt a little daunting. Actually, that's anything in life that you're not familiar with really... new jobs, new families, new friends, losing close friends & family... eventually, with time, it all comes around and you get the hang of things.

Bran <><

Yes, but the learning curve is not the settings, it's learning the sounds. Once you know the sounds you can fine tune the settings, but there's nothing to the settings... Sens., Disc., and a few more that don't do a heck of a lot by comparison, so are not worth worrying about... and they are far from complicated too. (The gain set to max would be my #3 of importance)

 

[godisnum1]

(The gain set to max would be my #3 of importance)

Got it!

Bran <><