Summit springs battle grounds

[Fat]

 

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[Fat]

 

[H.P.]

One trooper wounded, 52 Indians killed don’t sound like a battle to me...interesting but not surprising..

 

[billb]

A very sad day that didn’t need to happen

 

[Fat]

........... it’s hard to judge the past with today’s standards........ I like the words about praying to come together with harmony and respect.
The story of the 4yo getting shot in the back and arrow sticking to back side of sternum smarts a little to think about pulling it out too..

 

[dognose]

very interesting memorial

 

[pepperj]

Thanks for the sharing of the two memorials Fat.

 

[Fat]

 

[Fat]

View attachment 1915593

 

[southfork]

Real sad when you stop and think about it . Nice memorial markers

 

[ole miss rebel]

My take: After the us gov. take over of all things east of the Mississippi River (1865, end of civil war), they turned their attention to conquering all things west of the river. "Give us your land or die" said the gov.

 

[Tesorodeoro]

Thus continued the human cycle of the conquered and the conquerer.
It’s an ugly thing war. It wasn’t any prettier prior to 1492 either.

I do stop and think sometimes what my life would be like if none of the wars had occurred.

 

[GoDeep]

Thru out my life, i've often heard repeated one of the "justifications" for conquering the Indians as "Well, the tribes were constantly waging war and killing each other anyway, damn savages".

Has anyone ever stopped and thought about how ignorant and completely devoid of history that statement is coming from European men and woman? For thousands of years, barely a year went by without some European empire or country being at war. I guess Europeans viewed their wars as just and noble and Native American wars as savage events.

I guess if you can cast them as sub human, then it's ok to kill 'em off and take the land. It's estimated there was 10,000,000 Indians in North American pre-settlement, by 1890, less then 300,000.

And spare the retorts about "feel free to leave" or give back your land to the Indians. I'm well aware there's no going back.

 

[Fat]

..... I think the savage term came from the times. The violence of the civil war, arms and legs shot off or cut off at the next joint after being almost shot off. Crippled for life. Everybody got use to that level brutality.
.....after everyone adjusting to that level, along came the Indian warrior.
They overwhelmed in ambuscades, they didn’t just shoot you dead. They staked the men folk down to the prairie, cut out there belly buttons and spread the victims guts all over, mutilated private parts and than shoved them down the hopefully deads throat. Poked eyes out, poked ear drums, tortured. All the while passing the women folk around like mashed potatoes on Easter, All the warriors took a turn, they kept them for “entertainment” and slave labor. If the men weren’t abusing them the women were. After the Big Horn Massacre, it documented the women went around and made sure all were dead, poke, praud and than “brain” with a maul or just a handy rock. I think that’s why the term was used.
When there were called “gut eaters”, it’s because there are lots of journals discussing that practice too. The book I give as a ref. Over and over. Indian war of 1864, Eugene ware. There is a great story about when Ware meets Jim Bridger at Ft. Laramie and old Jim says “paraphrasing” they have a different taster than we do. He was describing an old woman cutting intestine, dipping it in bile, and watching the young children devour it.

 

[GoDeep]

You made my point Fat. Your description of barbaric Indians is no less savage then what the conquering empires of Europe did to those they conquered. Dismembering, disfiguring, disemboweling, mutilating, cannibalism was a regular tactic used in Europe too.

Read up on the methods and brutality of some of these battles and you'll come away thinking the Indians were steeped in tradition and honor and were mostly merciful:

49–96 Roman conquest of Britain
51 Armenian–Iberian war
69 Year of the Four Emperors
69–70 Revolt of the Batavi
86–88 Domitian's Dacian War
101–106 Trajan's Dacian Wars
166–180 Marcomannic Wars
193 Year of the Five Emperors
208–210 Roman invasion of Caledonia
238 Year of the Six Emperors
284–285 Roman civil war
306–324 Civil wars of the Tetrarchy
350–351 Roman civil war
360–361 Roman civil war
367–368 Great Conspiracy
376–382 Gothic War
387–388 Roman civil war
394 Roman civil war of 394 AD
526–532 Iberian War
535–554 Gothic War
541–562 Lazic War
582–602 Maurice's Balkan campaigns
c. 600–793 Frisian–Frankish wars
650–799 Arab–Khazar wars
680–1355 Byzantine–Bulgarian wars
695–717 Twenty Years' Anarchy
711–718 Umayyad conquest of Hispania
715–718 Frankish Civil War (715–718)
722–1492 Reconquista
719–759 Umayyad invasion of Gaul
735–737 Marwan ibn Muhammad's invasion of Georgia
772–804 Saxon Wars
c. 800/862–973 Hungarian invasions of Europe
830s Paphlagonian expedition of the Rus'
839–1330 Bulgarian–Serbian Wars
839–842 Bulgar–Serb War
853 Bulgar–Serb War
854–1000 Croatian–Bulgarian wars
860 Rus'–Byzantine War
865–878 Invasion of the Great Heathen Army
894-896 Byzantine–Bulgarian war of 894–896
907 Rus'–Byzantine War
913-927 Byzantine–Bulgarian war of 913–927
914 Arab-Georgian War
917-924 Bulgarian–Serbian wars of 917–924
939 Battle of Andernach
941 Rus'–Byzantine War
955 Battle of Recknitz
970–971 Sviatoslav's invasion of Bulgaria
982 Battle of Stilo
983 Great Slav Rising
11th century

Battle of Hastings (1066)

Battle of Gvozd Mountain, 1097
1002–1018 German–Polish War
1014–1208 Byzantine–Georgian wars
1015–1016 Pisan–Genoese expeditions to Sardinia
1015–1016 Cnut's invasion of England
1018 Battle of Vlaardingen
1024 Battle of Listven
1024 Rus'–Byzantine War
1043 Rus'–Byzantine War
1044 Battle of Ménfő
1048–1064 Invasion of Denmark
1050–1185 Byzantine–Norman wars
1057 Battle of Petroe
1060 Battle of the Theben Pass
1065–1067 War of the Three Sanchos
1066 Norwegian invasion of England
1066–1088 Norman conquest of England
1067–1194 Norman invasion of Wales
1067 Battle on the Nemiga River
1068 Battle of the Alta River
1073–1075 Saxon Rebellion
1075 Revolt of the Earls
1077–1088 Great Saxon Revolt
1078 Battle of Kalavrye
1088 Rebellion of 1088
1093 Battle of Schmilau
1093 Battle of the Stugna River
1097 Battle of Gvozd Mountain
1099–1204 Georgian–Seljuk wars
12th century

Monument of Didgori Battle, Georgia
1109 Battle of Głogów
1115 Battle of Welfesholz
1121 Battle of Didgori
1126 Battle of Chlumec
1130–1240 Civil war era in Norway
1135–54 The Anarchy
1142–1445 Swedish–Novgorodian Wars
1144–1162 Baussenque Wars
1159–1345 Wars of the Guelphs and Ghibellines
1164 Battle of Verchen
1169–1175 Norman invasion of Ireland
1173–1174 Revolt of 1173–74
1185–1204 Uprising of Asen and Peter
1198 Battle of Gisors
1198–1290 Livonian Crusade
13th century

Battle of Muret, 1213
1201 Battle of Stellau
1202 Siege of Zadar
1202–1214 Anglo–French War
1205 Battle of Zawichost
1208–1227 Conquest of Estonia
1209–1229 Albigensian Crusade
1211 Welsh uprising of 1211
1215–1217 First Barons' War
1216–1222 War of Succession of Champagne
1220–1264 Age of the Sturlungs
1223–1241 Mongol invasion of Europe
1223–1480 Tatar raids against Rus'
1224 Siege of La Rochelle
1227 Battle of Bornhöved
1231–1233 Friso-Drentic War
1234–1238 Georgian-Mongol War
1239–1245 Teltow War
1242 Saintonge War
1256–1258 War of the Euboeote Succession
1256–1381 Venetian–Genoese Wars
1256–1422 Friso-Hollandic Wars
1260 Battle of Kressenbrunn
1262–1266 Scottish–Norwegian War
1264–1267 Second Barons' War
1265 Battle of Isaszeg
1275–1276 The war against Valdemar Birgersson
1276–1278 6000-mark war
1276 War of Navarra
1277–1280 Uprising of Ivaylo
1278 Battle on the Marchfeld
1282–1302 War of the Sicilian Vespers
1283–1289 War of the Limburg Succession
1284–1285 Aragonese Crusade
1288–1295 War of the Outlaws
1296–1357 Wars of Scottish Independence
1297–1305 Franco-Flemish War
1298 Battle of Göllheim
14th century

Battle of Sluys, 1340, from a manuscript

Battle of Nájera, 1367
1302 Battle of the Golden Spurs
1304–1310 The Swedish brother's feud
1307 Battle of Lucka
1311 Battle of Halmyros
1311–1312 Rebellion of mayor Albert
1312 Battle of Rozgony
1321–1322 Despenser War
1321–1328 Byzantine civil war of 1321–28
1322 Battle of Bliska
1323–1328 Peasant revolt in Flanders
1324 War of Saint-Sardos
1326–1332 Polish–Teutonic War
1333–1338 Burke Civil War
1337–1453 Hundred Years' War
1340–1392 Galicia–Volhynia Wars
1340–1396 Bulgarian–Ottoman wars
1341–1347 Byzantine civil war of 1341–47
1342–1350 Zealot's Rebellion
1343–1345 St. George's Night Uprising
1347–1352 Neapolitan campaigns of Louis the Great
1350–1498 Wars of the Vetkopers and Schieringers
1350–1490 Hook and Cod wars
1356–1358 Jacquerie
1356–1375 War of the Two Peters
1362 Battle of Helsingborg
1362–1457 War of the Bands
1366–1369 Castilian Civil War
1366–1526 Ottoman–Hungarian Wars
1369–1370 First Fernandine War
1371–1913 Serbian–Ottoman wars
1371 Battle of Baesweiler
1371–1379 War of the Guelderian Succession
1371–1381 War of Chioggia
1372–1373 Second Fernandine War
1373–1379 Byzantine civil war of 1373–79
1375 Gugler War
1375–1378 War of the Eight Saints
1381 Peasants' Revolt
1381–1382 Third Fernandine War
1381–1384 Lithuanian Civil War (1381–84)
1382 Harelle and Maillotins Revolt
1381–1404 Second Georgian–Mongol War
1383-1385 Invasion of Portugal by Castille – Battle of Aljubarrota, 14 August 1385
1387 Battle of Margate
1389 Battle of Kosovo
1389–1392 Lithuanian Civil War (1389–92)
1395 Battle of Nicopolis
15th century

Battle of Formigny, 1450
1400–1415 Glyndŵr Rising
1401–1429 Appenzell Wars
1407–1468 Georgian-Turkoman War
1409–1411 Polish–Lithuanian–Teutonic War
1410–1435 War of Slesvig
1414 Hunger War
1419–1434 Hussite Wars
1422 Gollub War
1422 Battle of Arbedo
1425–1454 Wars in Lombardy
1431–1435 Polish–Teutonic War
1434–1436 Engelbrekt rebellion
1437 Budai Nagy Antal revolt
1438–1556 Russo-Kazan Wars
1440–1446 Old Zürich War
1441 Battle of Samobor
1443–1444 Long campaign
1445 First Battle of Olmedo
1447–1448 Albanian–Venetian War
1449–1450 First Margrave War
1449 Battle of Castione
1449–1453 Revolt of Ghent
1450 Jack Cade's Rebellion
1451–1455 Navarrese Civil War
1453–1454 Morea revolt
1454–1466 Thirteen Years' War
1455–1485 Wars of the Roses
1462–1485 Rebellion of the Remences
1462–1472 Catalan Civil War
1463–1479 Ottoman–Venetian War
1465 Battle of Montlhéry
1465–1468 Wars of Liège
1466–1469 Irmandiño Wars
1467 Second Battle of Olmedo
1467–1479 War of the Priests
1468 Waldshut War
1468–1478 Bohemian War
1470–1471 Dano-Swedish War
1470–1474 Anglo-Hanseatic War
1475–1479 War of the Castilian Succession
1477–1488 Austrian–Hungarian War (1477–88)
1478 Carinthian Peasant Revolt
1478 Battle of Giornico
1479 Battle of Guinegate
1482–1484 War of Ferrara
1484 Battle of Lochmaben Fair
1485–1488 Mad War
1487 Battle of Crevola
1487 War of Rovereto
1488 Battle of Sauchieburn
1492–1583 Muscovite–Lithuanian Wars
1493 Battle of Krbava Field
1493–1593 Hundred Years' Croatian–Ottoman War
1494–1498 Italian War of 1494–98
1495–1497 Russo-Swedish War
1497 Cornish Rebellion of 1497
1497 Battle of Rotebro
1499 Swabian War
1499–1504 Italian War of 1499–1504 – 20,000 killed in action[1]
16th century

Battle of Marignano, 1515

Siege of Narva, 1558

Siege of Szigetvar, 1566

St. Bartholomew's Day massacre, 1572

Battle of Sisak, 1593
c. 1500–1854 Lekianoba
1501-1512 Dano-Swedish War (1501–12)
1502–1543 Guelders Wars
1503–1505 War of the Succession of Landshut
1508–1516 War of the League of Cambrai – 31,000 killed in action[1]
1509–1510 Polish–Moldavian War
1514 Poor Conrad's Rebellion
1514 Dózsa rebellion
1514–1517 Saxon feud
1515 Slovene Peasant Revolt
1515–1523 Frisian peasant rebellion
1519–1521 Polish–Teutonic War
1520–1521 Revolt of the Comuneros
1521–1523 Revolt of the Brotherhoods
1521–1523 Swedish War of Liberation
1521–1526 Italian War of 1521–1526 – 30,000 killed in action[1]
1521–1718 Ottoman–Habsburg wars
1522–1523 Knights' Revolt
1524–1525 German Peasants' War
1526 Revolt of Espadán
1526–1530 War of the League of Cognac – 18,000 killed in action[1]
1529 First War of Kappel
1531 Second War of Kappel
1531-1532 War of Two Kings
1534 Silken Thomas Rebellion
1534–1535 Münster Rebellion
1534–1536 Count's Feud
1536-1537 Reformation in Norway
1536–1537 Pilgrimage of Grace
1540 Salt War
1542–1546 Italian War of 1542–1546 – 47,000 killed in action[1]
1542–1543 Dacke War
1543–1550 Rough Wooing
1546–1547 Schmalkaldic War
1549 Kett's Rebellion
1549 Prayer Book Rebellion
1550 Battle of Sauðafell
1551–1559 Italian War of 1551–1559 – 75,000 killed in action[1]
1552–1555 Second Margrave War
1554 Wyatt's rebellion
1554–1557 Russo-Swedish War
1558–1583 Livonian War
1559–1564 Spanish-Turkish War – 24,000 killed in action[1]
1560 Siege of Leith
1562–1598 French Wars of Religion
1563–1570 Northern Seven Years' War
1565 Great Siege of Malta
1566 Siege of Szigetvár
1568–1570 Morisco Revolt
1568–1648 Eighty Years' War
1569–1580 Spanish-Turkish War – 48,000 killed in action[1]
1569–1570 Rising of the North
1569–1573 First Desmond Rebellion
1573 Croatian–Slovene Peasant Revolt
1578 Georgian-Ottoman War
1579–1583 Second Desmond Rebellion
1580–1583 War of the Portuguese Succession
1583–1588 Cologne War
1585–1604 English-Spanish War – 48,000 killed in action[1]
1588–1654 Dutch–Portuguese War
1587–1588 War of the Polish Succession
1590–1595 Russo-Swedish War
1593 Battle of Sisak
1593–1606 Long Turkish War
1593–1617 Moldavian Magnate Wars
1594–1603 Nine Years' War (Ireland)
1595–1621 Moldavian Magnate Wars
1596–1597 Cudgel War
1598–1599 War against Sigismund
17th century

Relief of Genoa, 1625

Action at La Hogue, 1692
1600–1629 Polish–Swedish War
1602 Savoyard escalade of Geneva
1605–1618 Polish–Muscovite War
1606–1607 Bolotnikov Rebellion
1606–1608 Zebrzydowski Rebellion
1610–1614 Spanish-Turkish War – 15,000 killed in action[1]
1610–1617 Ingrian War
1611–1613 Kalmar War
1615–1618 Uskok War
1615–1617 Spanish-Savoian War – 2,000 killed in action[1]
1617–1621 Spanish-Venetian War – 5,000 killed in action[1]
1618–1619 Spanish-Turkish War – 6,000 killed in action[1]
1618–1648 Thirty Years' War
1624–1625 Siege of Breda – Spain vs. Holland, England
1635 Siege of Leuven – Spain vs. Holland, France
1637 Battle off Lizard Point – Spain vs. Holland
1638 Battle of Getaria – France vs. Spain
1639 Battle of the Downs – Spain vs. Holland
1643 Battle of Rocroi – France vs. Spain
1648 Battle of Lens – France vs. Spain
1618–1639 Bündner Wirren
1620–1621 Polish–Ottoman War
1625 Zhmaylo Uprising
1627–1629 Anglo-French War
1628–1631 War of the Mantuan Succession
1630 Fedorovych Uprising
1632–1634 Smolensk War
1637 Pavlyuk Uprising
1638 Ostryanyn Uprising
1639–1653 Wars of the Three Kingdoms
1639-1640 Bishops' Wars
1641-1653 Irish Confederate Wars
1642-1651 English Civil War
1642-1646 First English Civil War
1648-1649 Second English Civil War
1649-1651 Third English Civil War
1649-1653 Cromwellian conquest of Ireland
1640–1668 Spanish-Portuguese War – 80,000 killed in action[1]
1648–1659 Franco-Spanish War – 108,000 killed in action[1]
1648–1657 Khmelnytsky Uprising
1651 Kostka-Napierski Uprising
1651–1986 Three Hundred and Thirty Five Years' War
1652–1674 Anglo-Dutch Wars
1653 Swiss peasant war of 1653
1654 First Bremian War
1654–1667 Russo–Polish War
1654–1660 English-Spanish War – 15,000 killed in action[1]
1655–1660 Second Northern War
1656 War of Villmergen
1663–1664 Austro-Turkish War
1666 Second Bremian War
1666–1671 Polish–Cossack–Tatar War
1667–1668 War of Devolution – 4,000 killed in action[1]
1670–1671 Razin's Rebellion
1672 First Kuruc Uprising
1672–1678 Franco-Dutch War – 342,000 killed in action[1]
1672–1673 Second Genoese–Savoyard War
1675–1679 Scanian War
1676–1681 Russo-Turkish War
1679 Covenanter Rebellion
1683–1684 War of the Reunions – 5,000 killed in action[1]
1683–1699 Great Turkish War – 384,000 killed in action[1]
1685 Monmouth Rebellion
1688 Glorious Revolution
1688–1697 Nine Years' War – 680,000 killed in action[1]
1689–1692 First Jacobite Rising
18th century

Battle of Denain, 1712

Battle of Fontenoy, 1745

Great Siege of Gibraltar, 1779–83
1700 Lithuanian Civil War
1700–1721 Great Northern War – 30,000 Russians killed in action[2]
1701–1713 War of the Spanish Succession – 1,251,000 killed in action[1]
1703–1711 Rákóczi's War of Independence
1707–1708 Bulavin Rebellion
1712 Toggenburg War
1714–1718 Ottoman-Venetian War
1715–1716 Jacobite rising of 1715
1716–1718 Austro-Turkish War
1718–1720 War of the Quadruple Alliance – 25,000 killed in action[1]
1722–1723 Russo-Persian War
1727–1729 British-Spanish War – 15,000 killed in action[1]
1733–1738 War of the Polish Succession – 88,000 killed in action[1]
1735–1739 Russo-Turkish War
1737–1739 Austro-Turkish War
1740–1748 War of the Austrian Succession – 359,000 killed in action[1]
1740–1763 Silesian Wars
1741–1743 Russo-Swedish War
1745–1746 Jacobite rising of 1745
1756–1763 Seven Years' War – 992,000 killed in action[1]
1757 Georgian-Ottoman Battle
1763–1864 Russo-Circassian War
1768–1772 War of the Bar Confederation
1768–1774 Russo-Turkish War
1770 Georgian–Ottoman Battle
1770 Orlov Revolt
1774–1775 Pugachev's Rebellion
1775–1783 American Revolutionary War
1778–1779 War of the Bavarian Succession
1784 Kettle War
1784–1785 Revolt of Horea, Cloșca and Crișan
1785 Battle of the Sunja
1787 Dutch Patriot Revolt
1787–1792 Russo-Turkish War
1788–1791 Austro-Turkish War
1788–1790 Russo-Swedish War
1790 Saxon Peasants' Revolt
1792 Polish–Russian War of 1792
1792–1802 French Revolutionary Wars – 663,000 killed in action[1]
1794 Kościuszko Uprising
1795 Battle of Krtsanisi
1798 Irish Rebellion of 1798
1798 Peasants' War

 

[Tesorodeoro]

Deep, it was nice of you to leave those European women out of the whole ugly picture your painting.

Why the preemptive argument about race?

 

[Fat]

Holly Molly that is a list......
I understand what your saying, as it is today.
Tell that to the population 150 years ago. They should have know about all of them too.
It’s the perspective in context. War is Hell, I’ve heard say.
Why don’t the french get blamed for selling the Louisiana purchase? What right did they have? Maxmillion sold california?

 

[GoDeep]

Deep, it was nice of you to leave those European women out of the whole ugly picture your painting.

Why the preemptive argument about race?

Good catch, you're definitely more woke them me! Edited to include woman.

I didn't know i made any argument about, for or against race. I referred to a collective continent, "Europeans" as it was primarily Europeans settling post contact here in North America.

 

[GoDeep]

Holly Molly that is a list......
I understand what your saying, as it is today.

Yeah, amazing what man is capable of. It was really the only point i was making: When you hear people semi justify the whole sale slaughter of the Native Americans as they were "just killing each other anyway", you realize just how ignorant they are of their own European Ancestors war history.

Time for bed for this guy, i've been out in the garage welding and my eyes are tired.

 

[Charl]

The impact of Western civilization on the indigenous peoples of the Americas did not end with the 19th century “Indian Wars” in the United States. It continues in the Amazon, for instance, where miners are at work in protected areas where they should not be. Both natives and miners die in encounters in our own lifetimes. One hears the term “uncontacted tribes”. This does not refer to tribes that have no knowledge of the outside world, most have long since accepted Western goods, but instead refers to tribes who have made it clear they do not wish any further contact with outsiders.