Suction Dredging permits in California question

[MI96Romeo]

Hello folks,
TL/DR: What if one were using a suction dredge.....NOT to recover minerals but adopted the position "I am removing garbage or I am extracting rocks that I intend to sell for $x/unit of measure" then might one be able to legally suction dredge?

*full disclosure*
This is only my 2nd post, I just joined. I am barely even an amateur to hunting for gold and I am not a lawyer. I have done a bit of reading but lack practical experience in prospecting/panning/sluicing etc etc. I suspect I am missing something that will shoot the idea down.
That being said....

The current position of the state is no dredging permits https://wildlife.ca.gov/Licensing/Suction-Dredge-Permits

"Under new state law..........the use of vacuum or suction dredge equipment....in order to recover minerals.."

What if one were using a suction dredge.....NOT to recover minerals but to remove debris/trash or even gravel and sand proper?

It seems gravel and sand are not minerals https://www.hayeslawfirmllc.com/mineral.pdf
Debris and trash definitely are not minerals.

If one were to adopt the position "I am removing garbage or I am extracting rocks that I intend to sell for $x/unit of measure" then might one be able to legally suction dredge? It just so happens there is bycatch of gold in a sluice.

 

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[okbasspro]

If caught they will confiscate your equipment and you will have a fight in court. Trying to play in the gray area will not work.

 

[N-Lionberger]

People have tried all the loopholes, even dredge without a sluice or those gravel transfer devices.

 

[Goldwasher]

$100 dollar ticket.

 

[MI96Romeo]

Yeah I remember reading about the transfer loophole. I'm stuck on "in order to recover minerals". If one presents as collecting rocks as the primary during dredging and gets gold as a byproduct then it seems plausible. Definitely in that grey area.

 

[N-Lionberger]

There is no gray area.

 

[russau]

There is no gray area.

HA ! Upon looking in my mirror in my bathroom I digresses that I have a lot of gray area's EXCEPT where it wont grow anymore!

 

[winners58]

go here and sign up for the email subscription, they will have a draft NPDES suction dredge permit to comment on soon.
not to say how many areas will be "open" or what the cost will be, or even if a permit intended for a sewer plant is the right permit.
https://www.waterboards.ca.gov/water_issues/programs/npdes/suction_dredge_mining.html

 

[njcommercialdiver]

your not thinking outside the box enough.

what about using the "Im helping the environment, im removing all the toxic Mercury and Lead you are leaving in the waterways thats causing harm to the fish and ecosystem by witholding dredge permits, how many tons of it would have been removed in the last 10 years if the state government (and that FAKE indian tribe, wonder if thats the one Elizabeth Warren belongs to?) hadnt stopped all our attempts at removing it "think about the childrens future" argument?

honest officer, look in the box, its only mercury and lead. and i will bottle up the caught mercury and partially mercury covered gold for further processing back at home so it wont get anywhere near the waterways to cause environmental damage ever again. what can any tree hugger argue against in that statement? if they say anything, you can counter with the "you dont care about saving the environment or the childrens futures" wink wink

 

[Goldwasher]

Guess the fact that on public land the only reason your allowed to dig or dredge. Is the fact that you are doing so to develop a mineral resource.

Pre -claim you don't own the minerals and technically can't sell anything you get. Not even supposed to trade or barter.

On private land you lose all protection of the Mining Law. The state and local laws and ordinance. Will allow a guy in a tax exempt plated vehicle. To hand you all forms of expensive papers and threats.

The State of Ca. and many of it's counties have laws against moving a substantial amount of material/rock of of your property or someone elses. Especially if they sniff out an attempt to profit.

Dredgings strength thus far is The mining Law for those working claims. Specifically those doing it to develop the deposit. The main reason "clubs" can only help so much before they just muck it all up.

The best "loophole" is to look at the actual laws and court cases. Realize that dredging isn't really illegal or banned. Decide for yourself if the worry of getting "caught" . Doing something the people catching you can't even define or "manage" let alone meet court/legislative deadlines themselves accidentally on purpose.

Really hold that much power over you.