Stupid placer claim corner post question. And an etiquette question.

[bobw53]

State law says you need 4 corner posts... Then so does the guy to the E, NE, N, NW, W, SW, S, and SE.

So potentially you can have 4 corner posts that are "supposed" to go in the exact same spot...

Is this a common problem, and how is it usually handled? Can I just stuff my paper work in his tube


2nd question, if you stake a claim next to somebody, should you contact them and introduce yourself as their new
"claim neighbor"?

I'm just curious how this stuff is usually handled. or if I should even be concerned.

 

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[Caribou369]

I'm also rather curious how this gets handled on those super-steep slopes overlooking many claims...nice questions, bobw53!

 

[Bonaro]

One post can be the corner for 4 different claims, just add your tag to it. I use metal tags instead of any kind of ink or plastic sign. I cut open a pop can with scissors and write my info in the shiney side with a ball point pen. The indentations last forever. and I wire that to the post. You don't put any paperwork on the corners, just some indicator that it is the NW corner of claim name and #123. A copy of your location goes on your discovery post which is post #1 of a total of 5 posts. On super steep slopes where a post or reasonable access is not possible I would establish some kind of post nearby with clear markings which state the true corner is x feet from this spot on a heading of x degrees.

Meeting your neighbor is not a bad idea, you will know right quickly if he wants to be met.

 

[russau]

and for your own benefit , take a picture of these posts and write down the GPS coordinates and send a copy into the gubermint agency that handels this local. and keep your copy handy for your own use! Ive seen lots of claim markers tossed into the weeds from some (useually wacoenviromental jerks!)

 

[Hoser John]

Always get to know your neighbors in case you are clouding them out-or they you ,as when the heat is on is NOT the time to meet. If your in a vertical area-I have 1 of such- you erect a witness monument with all the required personal info and how far to the location. Ex: NW corner,165 feet nw of this monument. NOT since 1991 in California, if you take by legal subdivision ,you are no longer required to post corners,just location monument BUT I don't care how the law reads-just do it. Also in calif WOOD ONLY(sec 3915 a 1-3) as all else banned for the critters sakes as round pvc is righteous but caps come off,poles broken and they purport critters killed. Never seen a single incident in 58 years a mining but massive problem to enviros....sic sic sic. Before you put anything on a neighbors post ALWAYS talk first as some folks is nutz-John

 

[goldenIrishman]

Always a good idea to get to know your neighbor(s) on all sides of your claim. As John said, do it before you use their posts and make sure that they're cool with it. If not, you can set your post up next to theirs. Even though some states do not require corner markers under some circumstances, it's always a good idea to go ahead and mark them anyway. When marking, take photos to back your staking date up and try to get some kind of easily recognizable landmark in the shots as well. I would also suggest that you use a camera that can mark the pictures with the time and date. Use an old school film camera and have double prints made. Include one set of print with your filing paperwork at the county (if they will accept them) and keep the other set for your records.

If your neighbors turn out to be as nice as mine were, getting to know them can be a great benefit. Not only can you get an extra layer of security by having them keep an eye on things but you could also make a good friend and learn things from them.

 

[Goldwasher]

Met my neighbor finally. He is on his claim less then we are. Nice guy we have shared a little info. I warned him about recent Mt. Lion and High-grading activity. We watch out for each others interests, and I have been invited to run our power-sluice with him in a few spots he has detected larger gold. He gets to see what else he has maybe i'll get a little percentage and learn more about the area I can't prospect cause of his claim.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Staking depends on your State's location requirements. In most states locators are required to stake four corners. Sharing a corner stake post is not staking and does not meet the legal requirements for locating in those states. Four claims with common a common corner will have four stakes.

Even if there were a state that allowed sharing of corner posts (I don't know of any) what happens when your neighbor relinquishes his claim and has to remove the stakes?

It's best to rely on your own staking. We do precision corner locating for miners and it's always surprising how claims pile on one spot with their stakes. Often the original stake placed there was several hundred feet away from the actual corner. Playing follow the leader when claim staking can come back to bite you.

On Rich Hill in Arizona there are several claims that are located by referring to the NW corner post of a well known claim. Problem is that claim was abandoned in 1978 and no one today knows where that claim's NW corner post was.

The law requires one of two methods of describing a claim location - aliquot part (Public Land Survey) or metes and bounds (direction and distance). Both of those methods require reference to a permanent prominent physical marker. That could be either a Section corner pin, Mineral survey monument or a big rock. There are no other methods allowed.

GPS coordinates, somebody's corner post, map grids, houses, and trees are not legal methods of locating a claim. You can add all of these and all the details, descriptions and directions you want to your location notice but first you must make the location by one of the two methods above. Anything less and your claim is invalid from day one.

Take shortcuts and you will end up with no claim at all. Stake your claim as if there were no other claims there. Follow the simple laws of location and you'll be good to go.

Heavy Pans

 

[bobw53]

One post can be the corner for 4 different claims, just add your tag to it. I use metal tags instead of any kind of ink or plastic sign. I cut open a pop can with scissors and write my info in the shiney side with a ball point pen. The indentations last forever. and I wire that to the post. You don't put any paperwork on the corners, just some indicator that it is the NW corner of claim name and #123. A copy of your location goes on your discovery post which is post #1 of a total of 5 posts.

Differing state laws. Here its 4 corners, paperwork only needs to be at one of the markers, but the other markers need to indicate which marker has the paperwork.

In 1981 they eliminated the whole discovery thing. I read something on it, it had to do with new technologies that allowed you to have knowledge that something is there without
actually pulling it out of the ground.. They also eliminated the discovery monument, which in New Mexico apparently was a hole 10 feet wide, 10 feet long and 10 feet deep. Apparently
cows were falling into them or something.

I now know each state is different, finding the laws wasn't really all that difficult....

Another stupid question.. How did they locate before GPS? Now you just overlay the map and pick the points off, then go out in the field and look at your phone...
Is it possible that there could be tensions on boundaries, or people putting corner posts up 100's of feet from the actual corner...
Basically I'm curious of the history and methods that have been used to locate the corners over the years.

"Ive seen lots of claim markers tossed into the weeds from some (useually wacoenviromental jerks!) "

I'm seeing markers from 30 year old lode claims, I don't think anybody has tossed anything, which brings up another question, I know its highly illegal to
tamper with markers and posts... But what if the markers and posts are marking a lode claim that hasn't been active in 30 years?

Thanx for the comments, I'm learning a ton of good stuff.

 

[Goldwasher]

Differing state laws. Here its 4 corners, paperwork only needs to be at one of the markers, but the other markers need to indicate which marker has the paperwork.

In 1981 they eliminated the whole discovery thing. I read something on it, it had to do with new technologies that allowed you to have knowledge that something is there without
actually pulling it out of the ground.. They also eliminated the discovery monument, which in New Mexico apparently was a hole 10 feet wide, 10 feet long and 10 feet deep. Apparently
cows were falling into them or something.
what state are you in I have never heard any of that about no discovery? That goes against the whole basis of a claim?
Also using a gps and phone combo is a sure way to be way off.......
Back in the old days we had things called maps and co

I now know each state is different, finding the laws wasn't really all that difficult....

Another stupid question.. How did they locate before GPS? Now you just overlay the map and pick the points off, then go out in the field and look at your phone...
Is it possible that there could be tensions on boundaries, or people putting corner posts up 100's of feet from the actual corner...
Basically I'm curious of the history and methods that have been used to locate the corners over the years.


I'm seeing markers from 30 year old lode claims, I don't think anybody has tossed anything, which brings up another question, I know its highly illegal to
tamper with markers and posts... But what if the markers and posts are marking a lode claim that hasn't been active in 30 years?

Thanx for the comments, I'm learning a ton of good stuff.[/QUOTE

Using gps and phone combo can be inaccurate. Also You cant use GPS coordinates on your paperwork.
The old school and correct method is map compass and 100 foot tape. Once you figure out how to change the batteries and turn them on...they are accurate down to inches vs. yards like gps

 

[goldenIrishman]

When I'm out in the field prospecting new areas I always make sure to have a good compass, a map scale and maps for the area with the PLSS data on them. By knowing how to use the compass with the map(s) and scale I can plot my position to within a few feet. As an ex-infantry man using a compass and reading maps is pretty much second nature to me after all these years. I've also taught several people these skills over the years. Map reading is one of those skills that every miner should learn. Relying on GPS is good to a point but it A: can't be used to file a claim (yet) B: relies on batteries which will go dead on you when you need them (See Murphys' Law, Sec 32 Paragraph 3). A Compass will never have batteries go dead on you and depending on type can even act as a survival tool if needed. Maps with proper care will last forever. Learning how to combine the two will give you a potent tool.

For those of you that would like to learn the proper use of a compass and maps, the Land Matters site has a downloadable copy of the Army field training manual for land navigation. This manual (along with the help of a good Drill Instructor) is how I learned and although you most likely won't have a D.I. to help you, the book by itself with a little study can teach you all you'll need to know. Proper map orientation by declination, azimuths, back azimuths, map symbols, using a map scale etc are all covered in the manual and well worth taking the time to learn.

 

[augoldminer]

The law requires one of two methods of describing a claim location - aliquot part (Public Land Survey) or metes and bounds (direction and distance). Both of those methods require reference to a permanent prominent physical marker. That could be either a Section corner pin, Mineral survey monument or a big rock.

what we have problems with in the calif desert is in the 1930s the government had contracted the survey of the desert to a number of companies.

some did the surveys some just paper them and never put in the survey monuments.

plus the brass monuments caps have been high theft item over the years for metal thieves.
http://gentleartofwandering.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/IMG_0106-800x600.jpg

I even saw where someone had taken them and made belt buckles out of them and was selling them at a gun show.
The dealer later did jail time for this when it was found he had over 200 of these monuments caps that had been taken.

 

[russau]

That was/is a pretty DUMB dealer!!!

 

[Bonaro]

I have a high end Garmin GPS for locating the corners, takes all of the guesswork out of mapping a 20 acre rectangle in the woods and is accurate to about 2-3 feet. Cell phone GPS is only good for finding the nearest Starbucks or maybe referencing aerial maps. Usually the maps available for GPS are 1:100k or a slightly better 1:25k. A 7.5 minute USGS topo and a compass are standard equipment.
Recording this data on your notice of location is handy but aliquot part or meets and bounds are the only thing accepted. My BLM office wants nothing to do with coordinates but I include them as a footnote so it part of the recorded docs.