strange button

[johnnyi]

This is a really weird one, and I wonder if anyone has found one like it? I found it at a depth of objects dating from colonial to probably the 1840's at the latest. It seems to be made of at least three seperate pieces. The front shell seems to be solid silver (no sign of corrosion anywhere to suggest plating) which is now concave, but was probably once flat. The back seems to be made of two seperate lathe turned pieces. The central one may be pressed into the larger, or maybe screwed in. There seems to be evidence of a central shank, but no evidence of solder, only a "dot" of same gree copper alloy color. There are four holes in the central disk, but there is almost no way (unless you had a very very special curved nedle) to suppose those were for attaching. (unless just the central disk was sewed on first and the rest snapped or screwed on after) Could this be some kind of thingamabob button into which a woman dropped perfume? Was it a new invention that quickly hit the bricks? Thanks for looking, and after the good luck I had with my other button here, I know someone will know.

 

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[BuckleBoy]

I have seen two-piece concave buttons from the 1830s and '40s--but I don't know yet what to think about this one. I strongly suspect that the front face is not silver, but silver plated. If I could ask for a little more information on your button...

Could I see a photo with something for scale, like a penny or dime beside the button in the photo?

Could I also see a photo from the side angle? (I'd like to see how far the back is raised up.)

Are you certain that the button is two-piece? It almost reminds me of "vent holes" on the back of it, that's why I'm asking.


Best Wishes,


Buckleboy

 

[johnnyi]

Hi buckleboy, and thanks for the questions and comment. I think you must be right about the thin silver shell being plated. I was just surprised to see no corrosion at all, but I guess that was due to the two different metals complimenting each other? I'm sorry I can't give a side view, as I am using a scanner. I can tell you though that it is almost exactly the same thickness as two modern pennies stacked, and is almost the diameter of a modern dime. In other words it is very flat. The amount of the shell that has over time been impressed inwards seems pretty consistent with the button originally being flat or very slightly domed. The irregular way it is has been compressed inwards (doesn't show well in scan) will show you instantly that it is not naturally convex. The backside seems to be made of two distinct peices, but there's no way of knowing for sure (unless I were to find a way to take it apart.) As the button is too flat for the four holes to be anything but "vent holes", next question is what exactly were vent holes used for on such a button, particularly on a button like this where they apparently would not be a part of the foundry process? Thanks

 

[Don in SJ]

Interesting somewhat different button than usually found. I believe it never had a shank of any kind and the four holes were for the thread.
Era: tough to say, but believe possibly 1840-1860, not earlier, perhaps a bit later, but I would call it 1840s for now

Reference: Went crossed eyed looking in Tice's book but have seen 4 holed buttons that were two piece, where the thread would go through just the holes of the back piece, and age given was 1840-1860. There are many of that type from late 1800's into the 1900's but they were mostly wood or shell backed buttons, but again, had the 4 holes with a solid front of the button.

They in no way resemble vent holes in my opinion, due to construction.

Don

Vent backed buttons: Late in the 1600s hollow two or three piece buttons with one or two holes in the back replaced solid cast doublet buttons. These holes allowed air to escape while the front and back pieces were being flux-joined at high temperatures. These buttons were in use for quite some time with the mid to late 1700s being their heyday, then replaced by the popular large diameter flat buttons that we find at many late 1700 and early 1800's sites.

 

[johnnyi]

"Vent backed buttons: Late in the 1600s hollow two or three piece buttons with one or two holes in the back replaced solid cast doublet buttons. These holes allowed air to escape while the front and back pieces were being flux-joined at high temperatures. These buttons were in use for quite some time with the mid to late 1700s being their heyday, then replaced by the popular large diameter flat buttons that we find at many late 1700 and early 1800's sites."

Thanks Don. This is what throws me about the button: the front is pressed around the outer lathe turned disk, not soldered, so why the vent holes? If it did not have a shank, there would be no way to get a needle from one hole to the next, as the back is almost flat and even a bent needle would do it. (I wondered if the central back peice was sewed on first and then the rest snapped or screwed on after completing the button) In turn if it had a shank, then why the vent holes? What ever it was, it seems to have not been very popular.

 

[BuckleBoy]

I'll side with Don on this one. When I first looked at the scans, I thought the back was [/i]Raised.[/u]

I have a few concave buttons from the 1840 time frame. When I get back in town this weekend I can dig them out and post a photo if you like. Mine all have shanks though.


Regards,



Buckleboy