State of Florida paperwork:

[Peg Leg]

I guess this is good news-not sure yet.

I received the application for Historic Shipwreck Exploration or Salvage in Florida Waters this afternoon. It consist of 5 pages. It gives you the guidelines and definitions for Exploration and Salvage amoung a few other things.
I can now see what all the money goes even BEFORE you can pickup a stick and can only guess as to what it will cost.

I recall (with a little humor) people here asking me WHY I NEEDED I MILLION DOLLARS.
Well my friends after reading what is required I can only hope that a million would cover what has to be done BEFORE a Exploration permit is issued-just joking but it will take a lot of money and then the RECOVERY is where the money will go.

I am at the present time I am putting a Plan together that will show that this ship will HAVE to be raised. There is NO WAY anyone can tell what is there before this ship is raised. YES I know that a SUB Profiler would give a good idea but that cost MONEY which I do not have and you will need better than a GOOD IDEA to get investors to put up their money.

More later
Peg Leg

 

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[mariner]

Peg Leg,

In my opinion the Florida Statute 267, which authorises the State of Florida to issue exploration permits, is unconstitutional in the case of Spanish shipwreck sites, because it vests authority in the State only for abandoned wrecks, and the SeaHunt judgement in 2000 made it clear that Spanish wrecks in US waters are not abandoned, unless their owners have specifically done so.

e.g. FL Statute describing Florida's rights and responsibilities:

267. 031. (2). (2). (o): Protect and administer historical resources abandoned on state-owned lands or on state-owned sovereignty submerged lands. The division may issue permits for survey and exploration activities to identify historical resources and may issue permits for excavation and salvage activities to recover historical resources. The division may issue permits for archaeological excavation for scientific or educational purposes on state-owned lands or on state-owned sovereignty submerged lands. The division may also issue permits for exploration and salvage of historic shipwreck sites by commercial salvors on state-owned sovereignty submerged lands. The division shall adopt rules to administer the issuance of permits for all such activities. In addition, the division shall adopt rules to administer the transfer of objects recovered by commercial salvors under permit in exchange for recovery services provided to the state.

Also:

267. 061. (1). (b)(b) It is further declared to be the public policy of the state that all treasure trove, artifacts, and such objects having intrinsic or historical and archaeological value which have been abandoned on state-owned lands or state-owned sovereignty submerged lands shall belong to the state with the title thereto vested in the Division of Historical Resources of the Department of State for the purposes of administration and protection.

I am not against the application of stringent archaeological standards to the examination and recovery of all significant shipwrecks, but Florida does not have the right to apply their rules to Spanish shipwrecks.

Furthermore, what is the rationale behind the requirement for an exploration permit to carry out a remote sensing survey of a possible site? Remote sensing can do no possible harm to an archaeological or shipwreck site, so why require a permit for it? The only reason for applying such a regulation is to exert unconstitutional control over people, and vest the State with unconstitutional powers. Whatever happened to "we the people"?

Even in my state of Oregon, for example, you do not need any kind of permit to carry out a remote sensing survey of a possible site. Why should Florida exert this supposed authority?

My advice to Peg Leg continues to be that he should refuse to acknowledge Florida's right to try to control the site of a Spanish shipwreck, and to press them to admit that this is the case. In any case, the requirements for an exploration permit are designed to prevent somebody like Peg Leg, or any ordinary person coming across a shipwreck site, from getting one.

Mariner

 

[Peg Leg]

Well since my last post I received a PHONE call from the Division of Historical Resources.
I NOW know that this forum IS watched closely.
It seems that I have rocked the boat with my posts.
I was informed that YES the State of Florida is going to give me permission to a survey of the area where the ship may be located. I was also told that I do not need to be Incorporated since I am acting on behalf of MYSELF and .NOT A COMMERCIAL COMPANY.
There are a few things that MUST get straight before I sign anything.
I wonder why they called me instead of sending me a Fax or Email.
We will see what happens next.
Sometimes it pays to speak your MIND.
Thanks everyone.
Will keep you informed.
Peg Leg

 

[mariner]

Peg Leg,

It will be interesting to see which of their conditions they are prepared to waive,and to find out why they are prepared to do so. In my opinion, they must be doing this to avoid further discussion about whether they have any authority to issue permits. If I were you, I would write into your application that if this is a Spanish ship, you do not accept that Florida has any claim to the title of it, as it will not be an abandoned vessel.

Mariner

 

[ScubaFinder]

Don't forget, no matter who owns the wreck, abandoned or not, it is still on Florida land. Submerged lands are still under the jurisdiction of the state, the wreck may or may not be, but the land most definitely is. If you "rock the boat" too much, you can find yourself with environmental restrictions or a myriad of other things that can halt a project. Rock the boat gently

Jason

 

[mad4wrecks]

Be prepared to hire an marine biologist as you may be required to do a bethnic survey

 

[ScubaFinder]

God help you if there are tube worms nearby, eh Tom? Neat animals though, I have some in my aquarium that havce grown into quite a colony over the four years I have had them.

 

[Peg Leg]

Another twist to this on going DRAMA.
Now the State is saying that NO search permits will be issued UNLESS I am Incorporated in the State of Florida.
I am about to get MAXED OUT.
Peg leg

 

[ScubaFinder]

I'm not 100% sure, but I think the incorporation is required because it gives the state a legal entity to go after for taxes as opposed to an individual.

Jason

 

[mariner]

Peg Leg,

Not that I necessarily think you should apply for a permit before you have reached some kind of tentative agreement with Spain (which may take some doing) but setting up a corporation is no big deal. I have not examined the process in Florida, but in Oregon you can do it all in a couple of hours, without the need for attorneys, and at a cost of about $50.

Mariner

 

[Salvor6]

Hey Peg Leg, I told you months ago that you need to be incorporated in Florida. You can do it in 1/2 hour online at Amerilawyer.com for $99. They also have a drive thru window at their office.

 

[Peg Leg]

O.K.
I will Incorporate in the State of Florida.
NOW who is interested in buying stock/shares in this Corporation?
I would bet NOT A SINGLE PERSON ON THIS FORUM.
What if the stock was only $0.50 per share BUT with a mininum of 1,000 shares.
Who would be interested then?
Peg leg

 

[ScubaFinder]

Don, I think you are "preaching to the choir" here. Am I interested in sending you money, heck no...because I need my money to outfit my own boat, and relocate to Florida to go after my own wrecks. Most of the guys here are looking for their own wrecks, and trying to amass their own equipment, start their own corporations, and get their own permits...all of which takes ALL of their own money! I don't think your corp. would be any worse an investment than any other treasure hunting company...but treasure hunters here are all investing in their own companies and equipment, and therefore not too interested in paying for yours.

My advice, solicit PARTNERS here with the equipment that you don't already have (I know you have already done this, just making the point, and you made an excellent choice in my opinion). You'd get more benefit from finding a forum for the high risk / high yield investments, and tell them your story. Most of the guys here are in the same shape as yourself.

Jason

 

[Peg Leg]

Jason,
I fully understand that most here are looking for DOLLARS themselves for their own project but I wanted to make this offer to those on this forum FIRST. I was testing the waters just to make sure.
I have decided to sell a few of my own STUFF in order to help cover the cost of my next step.
If I am ever permitted to recovery anything from my Ghost Ship there are differnt routes that I have to take-some good and some not so good but I WILL do whatever is required to bring this project to a successful close.
Even if it means dealing with the Kingdom of Spain by way of the Federal Courts.
Florida is WRONG and is assuming to much and if need be I WILL TEST THEM IN COURT.
This is still the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA and I am a Native born American with all my rights granted under the Laws of America.
Don "peg leg" Webb

 

[Peg Leg]

My friends I think it is time for me to take a vacation from the forum until I have something important to say.
Thanks
Peg Leg

 

[wreckdiver1715]

Pegleg - Once again! this is not the place to solicit investors.

Thanks

Tom

 

[wreckdiver1715]

Just a foot note: In the case of Sea Hunt that went before the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, Spain's lawyers argued it never abandoned the ships and wants them left undisturbed as military gravesites. The court ruled in Spains favor even though the ship was in the territorial waters of the State of Virginia, and the State granted permission for Sea Hunt to recover the wreck.
It is highly improbable that Spain will ever reverse this policy, or it will open a big can of legal worms.
This also raises questions about some 250 other Spanish vessels, including the bulk of the three treasure fleets sunk by storms in 1622, 1715, and 1733 that are thought to contain hundreds of millions of dollars in lost treasure, too include much of that treasure that has already been recovered in Florida waters.
Will we have to throw it all back?

Tom

 

[Peg Leg]

So some think it would be harder to deal with Spain than trying to deal with the State of Florida.
I will soon find out one way or the other after the first of the year.
Lets take a good look at what is going on.

The State of Florida takes the BEST artifacts that can be recovered and then what. They place said artifacts in a storage building somewhere and FORGETS about it unless it is so unique that someother Museum wants to show it off.
Many here have said time after time that the ARTIFACTS collected by the State of Florida BELONG to the PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF FLORIDA-(what a bunch of crap). But when WE ask for an INVENTORY WE are lucky if WE even get a reply.
How many coins does it take to figure its history, where and when it was minted? Does it take say 5,000 silver Reale 8 minted in Mexico during a particular year to reach a decision that YES THIS COIN WAS MINTED IN MEXICO, or Lima ETC.
How many different Assayers were involved over say 400 years?
The State of Florida can go to Spain and look for themselves but guess what they depend on the WRITERS and RESEARCHERS to do this work for them.
I would say that there are MORE Researchers on this FORUM than employed by the entire State of Florida.
Is there somethong wrong with this picture?
Back to the main question.
DEALING WITH SPAIN:
Why has Spain not tried to recover its lost treasure ships themselves? MONEY-MONEY-MONEY is the answer plain and simple. It is plain to see that Spain like the State of Florida will let others do their work for them and REAP the rewards. BUT the State of Florida is making it harder and harder with a new Regulation put on the books ever time we turn around.
YES I know that when and if Spain decides it wants its FAIR SHARE that the State of Florida will make it almost impossible to do any Treasure recovery but they are going to cut their own throats in time and the time of the PIRATES will return but in a more advanced and sophisticated mode.
Later
Peg Leg

 

[mariner]

Tom,

It might be that Spain will take the position that they do not want to disturb their wrecks. Certainly, they are one of the relatively few countries who have already signed up to the last UNESCO convention on underwater cultural resources. However, we do not know what their position is. I suspect that their position will be that they will not want to give permission to recover a wreck simply because it contains a lot of treasure, but they may be willing to examine and recover wrecks that are historically important. For exampole, would they agree to examine and recover the wreck of a Manila Galleon? I suspect they would. Will they agree to allow the recovery of the wrecks from the 1733 fleet? I suspect not, because if this was the case then I expect the Fisher group would have already secured their permission to do so, because as I understand it they have probably found at least one of them. We will have to wait and see, but that is one reason why I keep encouraging PegLeg to approach Spain. I do not think Spain is going to make a voluntary statement on their popsition. We will only find out what it is as and when they are asked to consider specific cases.

If Spain do take the view that they will not give permission for any of their wrecks (in US waters) to be recovered then the only Spanish wrecks in US waters that can be recovered will be those that belonged to private individuals, and which now belong to the legal successors of those private individuals. There are probably more of these than most people would think.

Personally, I wish that all wrecks could be recovered, provided the recoveries could be carried out in an appropriate manner, because each represents an individual window on history, and it seems pointless to me to leave all those artifacts just lying on the ocean bed, but that is just my view. Certainly, if any Cortes wrecks are identified, I would want to have them recovered.

Mariner

 

[wreckdiver1715]

Mariner, I agree, it's all about the treasure and the money (Florida keeps whats left of it's share in the old jail house in Tallahassee). However, Spains stated position in court is that they are Military Gravesights, and yes! what of the few wrecks that everyone survived. I think that it is also safe to assume that should UNESCO ever be ratified, it would be then that Spain could sail freely into US waters and recover the illgotten gain they lost. Under UNESCO all member nations are relinquishing there sovereign rights as a nation, and that is just wrong.

Tom