Spain calls for a treasure hunting ban in the EU

[Cablava]

Maybe someone can translate this.

Basically, Molina wants to create a red-flag list of people andcompanies associated with treasure hunting and to insert underwaterheritage protection into the Common European Sea Policy agenda, forwhich he has received the "entusiastic support" of Portugal, Romania,Greece, Italy, Poland, Malta and France, as well as a more"restrained" effort from the UK.

Molina pide una 'lista roja' contra el saqueo subacuático
"Nos duele el tema Odyssey", dice el ministro de Cultura
R. MARTÍNEZ DE RITUERTO - Bruselas - 17/11/2007


Vota Resultado 15 votos
Un ministro de Cultura incandescente por el caso Odyssey propuso ayer al resto de sus colegas comunitarios la elaboración de una lista roja que impida el comercio de tesoros saqueados del patrimonio cultural subacuático. César Antonio Molina les presentó su idea, entre otras, como una medida para responder con urgencia "a una industria" que si no se hace "nada lo va a saquear todo". Fuera de la sala, el ministro también anunció que España rechaza de plano la indemnización de cinco millones de euros que reclama Odyssey por los daños y perjuicios que le causó la orden de busca y captura contra sus buques dictada por un tribunal español.

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"Nos duele el tema Odyssey", declaró el ministro en conferencia de prensa posterior a la cita con sus homólogos de la Unión, a quienes alertó de que "esto es el inicio de una industria" de rapiña que pone en peligro el patrimonio cultural europeo. "Hay que desacreditar a esas empresas que se dedican a violar el patrimonio histórico y artístico de la UE", insistió. "Atajarlo de manera inmediata y común".

El concepto de inmediatez es extraño a la maquinaria comunitaria, por lo que el proceso que quiere poner en marcha España no tiene fecha previsible de conclusión, por más que la idea de proteger ese valioso patrimonio vaya a incluirse en la futura Política Marítima de la UE. España reclama que se colme cuanto antes el actual vacío jurídico sobre el asunto y que los países y la Comisión Europea "inicien una reflexión en profundidad" sobre ello lo más rápidamente posible. En esa ansia de actuación se inscribe la propuesta de Molina de tratar con el Consejo Internacional de Museos la elaboración de "una lista roja que dificulte el comercio ilícito de bienes del patrimonio subacuático".

La idea española recibió "el entusiástico (sic) apoyo", según el ministro, de buen número de países costeros de la Unión (citó a Portugal, Rumania, Grecia, Italia, Polonia, Malta y Francia) y "el más tibio del Reino Unido".

 

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[Moe (fl)]

Cablava has the right idea about this news article.

Here are some new points:

The Spanish minister of culture César Antonio Molina is proposing (because of the Odyssey case) the EU members to enact an urgent law that includes the creation of a red-flag list to protect the commerce of underwater treasure within the EU territories.

The article says that Spain accuses the treasure salvage companies of stealing their national heritage/treasure and warns of an emerging industry that will pillage everything if nothing is done to stop them. The article says that Spain dismissed the legal claim by Odyssey for 5 million euros in damages due to their ships being held by Spanish court orders.

----------------

On what grounds does Spain claim these shipwrecks which have been abandoned by their government for centuries. If the Spainish government is so concerned why haven't they searched for the ships before?

 

[TidePool]

The article says that Spain accuses the treasure salvage companies of stealing their national heritage/treasure and warns of an emerging industry that will pillage everything if nothing is done to stop them.

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Spain "pillage" themselves when originally acquiring some of said heritage/treasure by way of their quinto tax and other "methods"?

The Spanish should probably talk to the Aztecs to see how they dealt with the pillaging.

Oh yeah, nevermind...

 

[Cablava]

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Spain "pillage" themselves when originally acquiring some of said heritage/treasure by way of their quinto tax and other "methods"?

The Spanish should probably talk to the Aztecs to see how they dealt with the pillaging.

Oh yeah, nevermind...


I am afraid those arguments do not wash in this dayand age, right or wrong. I suppose you are give the family land back to the red indians shortly.

I thought not.

 

[jeff k]

Is a red list anything like a black list?

 

[wwwtimmcp]

why hasn't spain been searching for wrecks or its heritage ? because it is easier to wait until someone else does the hard work then come in under some bs national heritage crap and steal it.

kind of like declaring an already occupied country for the king of spain,enslaving/murdering the locals and melting everything down into something that looks like theirs.

 

[bobinsd]

Can't the argument be made that only 20% should go to the Spanish government? The rest should go to whoever files a claim, regardless of nationality! Just a thought...

Gollum, did you get my PM?

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

hio Moe: You forgot to add the --

"Spain's projected idea is enthusiastically backed by Portugal, Rumania, Greece, Italy, Malta, and France.".

 

[Cablava]

Part of this comes from the only court in the world that will give a judgement in international waters on this type of case is the US courts. (the reason why Odyssey lodged in the US, no other county has the audacity).

But I guess if Spain disagrees then they will say stuff the US court decision and do what ever they want to do. And a lot of other countries will follow, just what I have said all along, major damage for the TH community.

 

[pcolaboy]

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Spain "pillage" themselves when originally acquiring some of said heritage/treasure by way of their quinto tax and other "methods"?

The Spanish should probably talk to the Aztecs to see how they dealt with the pillaging.

Oh yeah, nevermind...


I am afraid those arguments do not wash in this dayand age, right or wrong. I suppose you are give the family land back to the red indians shortly.

I thought not.

You're exactly right and this is my sentiment on the matter as well. Careful though...there are others on this board that will flame you for that position as I have learned first hand.

Pcolaboy

 

[Panfilo]

RNE, the local Spanish radio station, interviewed the Spanish Culture Minister who made these curious statements:

El ministro de Cultura, César Antonio Molina, ha anunciado este miércoles en RNE la creación de un proyecto de Ley de Patente Subacuática para evitar actuaciones como la de la empresa norteamericana Odyssey en aguas españolas. Para el ministro, “Odyssey ha actuado de manera ilegal. Es una empresa que se dedica a sacar pecios que no son suyos y que tienen bandera de otro país. Tratan de sacar ocultamente la riqueza de esos barcos. Deben de saber que les vamos a buscar estén donde estén”.

The interesting perspective of the Minister who states: " Odyssey has acted in an illegal manner. The company is dedicated to the recovery of shipwrecks that do not belong to it and that have a flag from another country. They try to extract secretly the riches of these ships. They must know that we will look for them wherever they are". I think the relevant question is: who do these shipwrecks belong to particularly when they are in international waters?
A word of caution when you read about this subject in Spanish: 9 times out of ten, when these clowns use the term "pecios" instead of many other synonyms for the English term "shipwreck" (the exact definition of pecio is : a fragment of a ship that has wrecked or a portion thereoff), they are 100% pro UNESCO Convention and therefore against any commercial enterprice or operation. It will tell you where they stand just by using this word, there are exceptions of course but very few in my opinion.