Tanneyhill

Full Member
Mar 5, 2023
102
122
Hello TreasureNet, I am a relative newbie to this forum although have been interested in lost valuables for many years. I've been lurking on this site for a few months reading up on details of various shipwrecks which I find so fascinating but only recently created an account. I appreciate the level of detail many of the researchers go into.

I have been reading a lot about the American Civil and Revolutionary Wars, California Gold Rush and shipping lanes to and from Panama and the Spanish treasure fleet routes taking riches from the New World back to Spain. There is a lot to digest and with existing wrecks not fully scavenged or even completely found there is so much an aspiring treasure hunter could focus on.

Before I dive deep into any one area, I wanted to ask ya'll here - are there any type of treasures that you think are not worth the time, money and effort to research and investigate? The lost Confederate Gold after the Civil War ended appears to be a good candidate for not pursuing given that it may not exist and so much has moved around.

I'm fascinated by stagecoach robberies by bandit during the California/Nevada gold rush but unsure where to begin to investigate all the bandits and travel lanes from the Sierra Foothills to San Francisco. Bandits would often rob stagecoaches and hide the loot and often be killed or arrested before they could pick up the bounty. Also, wondering if there were other ships like the SS Central America that went down carrying California gold rush gold. Also a lot of old now abandoned railways carrying Colorado gold were robbed with gold buried along the railway lines or nearby. Any good books ya'll have come across on this subject I would be very grateful.

Also, any ships in the Caribbean or the Pacific side of Mexico/California/South America that are known to have gone down with large quantities of valuables which haven't received a whole lot of attention by treasure hunters and remain unfound? I know the San Miguel of the 1715 fleet remains elusive as does the San Miguel from 1551 that sank off the coast of Santo Domingo. There is also the Santa Maria that sank off the coast of Ecuador in 1590 that Margaret Brandeis apparently found (see link below) but did not pursue or tell the authorities given the uncooperative nature of the Ecuadorian government. It may not be worth pursing if she didn't pursue it.


I was wondering in general - where do ya'll get your ideas from? I plan to make a trip out to Seville, Spain to spend a couple of months doing research so that could potentially give me ideas but wondering if ya'll know of good books or resources I could study for idea generation I would be very grateful. I'm the kind of guy who doesn't want to infringe on other peoples ideas even though I know its all fair game so long as you aren't infringing on pre-existing leases & private property. But I like to do things that most aren't doing.

Also, since I'm a newbie, I wanted to ask - is there an etiquette that treasure hunters should abide by? I know the governments are encroaching on private life and private enterprise more and more to get their cut of the pie and there is the risk that a government could outright confiscate your loot without sharing any of the spoils of the find. So is it better to search and scavenge without alerting the thieves in government? I know this is an open ended question and many will have different opinions on the matter and I welcome the discussion.

My concern is why be like Dennis Parada who was advised to alert the FBI about potential Civil War era gold find in Dents Run, PA. The parasites in government came swooping down and stole the gold without even the slightest thank you, or reward or recognition.

I don't care for fan fare. This is all about fun and adventure and there is nothing like holding bullion or gems and a piece of history in your own hands.

I also wanted to mention that I am retired and still south of 50 yrs so I have sufficient energy to do hands on work and have sufficient capital to finance any treasure search without requiring outside investors. Given that, I am looking to jump into research about a fascinating lost treasure and hopefully the adventure of a life time.

Appreciate the discussion and feedback. It's an honor to be part of this community. Thank you kindly.
 

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Opinions will certainly vary!

Solid leads. Meaning certainty of facts. Fleshing out and proving leads often tapers off into more fiction than fact.

You mention major treasures. The legalities and capitol required for many can add up to considerable sums. IF a site proved out by solid leads is legally accessible.

When folks are before us doing the same thing , one piece of a puzzle can put an X to a site. Or complete a lead.
How do you deal with not being the one to divulge such information yourself during your research?
An example is a news article that filled a gap in research that put two competing hunters on the same site. Even seeing each other near the X going different directions once.
Both scored. But neither like they would have. Yes that was an exception.
But know there are others needing just one more piece to confirm or inspire hitting a site.

And know too some sites are being watched for an opportunity.
One the landowner refused permission on a site in sight of a main road.
One of those watching is gone now. Just one of multiple sites multiple people were aware of. We're seldom first to follow a lead somewhere....

You might not like my idea of starting small and gaining experience.
Draw a circle around your home base. You choose how far but why not several miles at first and expand outwards from there?
Dig historic references. Libraries can be a source. Old paper reports , journals , historical societies.
Mind you don't let on too much about what you're doing. That can open doors , but can close them just as well.

Miser died. Relatives sought. Could be the start of alead.
An ol timer died single near me. Poor visioned he had a rope from house to barn. (Not unlike blizzard stories huh?)
This was in an era silver was our coinage. Of which he took of from the bank when he visited in a specific amount.
(Imagine how I found that out? Was it credible?)
Many years later his house was burned in a controlled fire. Some paper fragments fluttering down were inspected and found to be paper money.
(And again , where did that differently sourced info come from and was it credible?)
My question was if he had squirreled some silver.
Prime spots to check were not a big concern until locating the site. Then permission would need to be secured without announcing I was after a potential silver stash/cache/horde/handfull of coins. Such tends to give those being asked visions of treasure chests , barrels of gold coins and how much is my cut kind of questions.

I located the alleged site.
And didn't inquire as to permission.
It's on a card in a file of leads to peck away at. Most of which have not panned out enough to visit a site.
Did I mention the research is a drag to me? l.o.l..
But it can really save wasted effort on the ground.

Work some major treasure ideas. But work small ones too.
Keep them seperate and documented so you can let one (and more) rest while you digest what you have so far or can add to in time.
With practice you'll catch more subtle clues. Understanding there's often big fish tales mixed in and some just plain false accounts. Not always intentionally. Sometimes intentionally!

Good research beats good luck.
Good luck can help research.
Simple recoveries vs difficult and logistics laden recoveries. Yes you can do both.
Develop leads into recoverable small recoveries. They'll help on bigger ones. IF you can figure out some that multiple others are also aware of and unable to recover.
Can you find something solid enough to go after others are not looking to also recover?
Or find the piece that solidifies a lead enough to move on it? With access AND recovery allowed?

There's ways to prove it.











.
 

Opinions will certainly vary!

Solid leads. Meaning certainty of facts. Fleshing out and proving leads often tapers off into more fiction than fact.

You mention major treasures. The legalities and capitol required for many can add up to considerable sums. IF a site proved out by solid leads is legally accessible.

When folks are before us doing the same thing , one piece of a puzzle can put an X to a site. Or complete a lead.
How do you deal with not being the one to divulge such information yourself during your research?
An example is a news article that filled a gap in research that put two competing hunters on the same site. Even seeing each other near the X going different directions once.
Both scored. But neither like they would have. Yes that was an exception.
But know there are others needing just one more piece to confirm or inspire hitting a site.

And know too some sites are being watched for an opportunity.
One the landowner refused permission on a site in sight of a main road.
One of those watching is gone now. Just one of multiple sites multiple people were aware of. We're seldom first to follow a lead somewhere....

You might not like my idea of starting small and gaining experience.
Draw a circle around your home base. You choose how far but why not several miles at first and expand outwards from there?
Dig historic references. Libraries can be a source. Old paper reports , journals , historical societies.
Mind you don't let on too much about what you're doing. That can open doors , but can close them just as well.

Miser died. Relatives sought. Could be the start of alead.
An ol timer died single near me. Poor visioned he had a rope from house to barn. (Not unlike blizzard stories huh?)
This was in an era silver was our coinage. Of which he took of from the bank when he visited in a specific amount.
(Imagine how I found that out? Was it credible?)
Many years later his house was burned in a controlled fire. Some paper fragments fluttering down were inspected and found to be paper money.
(And again , where did that differently sourced info come from and was it credible?)
My question was if he had squirreled some silver.
Prime spots to check were not a big concern until locating the site. Then permission would need to be secured without announcing I was after a potential silver stash/cache/horde/handfull of coins. Such tends to give those being asked visions of treasure chests , barrels of gold coins and how much is my cut kind of questions.

I located the alleged site.
And didn't inquire as to permission.
It's on a card in a file of leads to peck away at. Most of which have not panned out enough to visit a site.
Did I mention the research is a drag to me? l.o.l..
But it can really save wasted effort on the ground.

Work some major treasure ideas. But work small ones too.
Keep them seperate and documented so you can let one (and more) rest while you digest what you have so far or can add to in time.
With practice you'll catch more subtle clues. Understanding there's often big fish tales mixed in and some just plain false accounts. Not always intentionally. Sometimes intentionally!

Good research beats good luck.
Good luck can help research.
Simple recoveries vs difficult and logistics laden recoveries. Yes you can do both.
Develop leads into recoverable small recoveries. They'll help on bigger ones. IF you can figure out some that multiple others are also aware of and unable to recover.
Can you find something solid enough to go after others are not looking to also recover?
Or find the piece that solidifies a lead enough to move on it? With access AND recovery allowed?

There's ways to prove it.











.
Thank you for the thoughtful and detailed reply. This helps a lot.

I am a Canuck in north Toronto planning to move to the west coast and spend my time between NorCal, Arizona and New Mexico by end of this year so not much in the way of local treasure here that I can investigate in the meantime. No history up where I am unless I drive up to the mines in northern Ontario.

But since I am moving out to US West Coast I thought I should begin my research about those regions. I'm going to follow your suggestions about how and where to research.

I will have most questions for the TresNet community as I dive deeper. Thank you and I look forward to future discussions.
 

Thank you for the thoughtful and detailed reply. This helps a lot.

I am a Canuck in north Toronto planning to move to the west coast and spend my time between NorCal, Arizona and New Mexico by end of this year so not much in the way of local treasure here that I can investigate in the meantime. No history up where I am unless I drive up to the mines in northern Ontario.

But since I am moving out to US West Coast I thought I should begin my research about those regions. I'm going to follow your suggestions about how and where to research.

I will have most questions for the TresNet community as I dive deeper. Thank you and I look forward to future discussions.
Jesuits and natives and the fur trade could keep someone busy up your way.
Looked over a display of artifacts in person that a guy had West of you , reflecting quite a time span.
"Rolled" handled knives caught my interest. With of course older rocker types really interesting.

Not everyone trusts banks. A trend throughout history.
Where then to secure valuables?

 

Jesuits and natives and the fur trade could keep someone busy up your way.
Looked over a display of artifacts in person that a guy had West of you , reflecting quite a time span.
"Rolled" handled knives caught my interest. With of course older rocker types really interesting.

Not everyone trusts banks. A trend throughout history.
Where then to secure valuables?

Gotcha. Makes sense. Thank you for the idea. I've been reading and researching non-stop firstly to just understand the history and who the earlier players were. There is a "lot" to research, digest and think while I hope to stumble across a vague treasure to investigate further. 🙏
 

Gotcha. Makes sense. Thank you for the idea. I've been reading and researching non-stop firstly to just understand the history and who the earlier players were. There is a "lot" to research, digest and think while I hope to stumble across a vague treasure to investigate further. 🙏
I sent my notes to a resident in Canada.
Sites are locatable. Most notable /well known and accessible I expect frown on detecting.
But where are the in be tweens? Camp sites. Casual trade sites en route between forts too.
Portage ends where goods were rested and breaks taken. Perhaps extended times for repairs, or waiting out weather.

Not sure if you're familier with this , but there's interesting references to places and more.
Doesn't indicate "treasure" . But rather people and places early on . Which can lead to more.
Look for non Jesuit commerce on the peripherals. Some missions like the one I eyed had a community developed around it. With that age /era it then leads to what was going on for major dealings with whom and what.

 

Later years.
PeterPondFurTradeMap.jpg


 

You asked: " So is it better to search and scavenge without alerting the thieves in government?"
No, not only would that probably be illegal, you might also find your arse in jail.
Another Margaret Brandeise book you might enjoy is: 'Women Can Find Shipwrecks Too'. It, too, is about finding treasure--or almost finding treasure. The book ends with baiting about more treasure in Ecuadoran waters.
By the way, I've worked (searched and salvaged) in Ecuadoran waters ('Capitana' 1654). IMO, it is not the place to work today--for political reasons.
As for working California wrecks, you might look elsewhere; the heavy political workload and costs necessary to get in front of and present your applications before commissions may not be worth the time, cost or effort.
Don......
 

Are there any treasures not worth investigating? How long is a piece of string? Everyone has a different answer. I’m not a Sasquatch believer, but plenty of people beat on trees, set up trail cameras, etc to prove they are real. Are they wasting their time? Not if they enjoy the activity. Is my opinion any better than their’s? No. The same applies to treasure lore. Follow the ones you want to follow. NOBODY knows for sure. Look what Magellan and Copernicus accomplished. They followed the ideas that interested them.
 

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I sent my notes to a resident in Canada.
Sites are locatable. Most notable /well known and accessible I expect frown on detecting.
But where are the in be tweens? Camp sites. Casual trade sites en route between forts too.
Portage ends where goods were rested and breaks taken. Perhaps extended times for repairs, or waiting out weather.

Not sure if you're familier with this , but there's interesting references to places and more.
Doesn't indicate "treasure" . But rather people and places early on . Which can lead to more.
Look for non Jesuit commerce on the peripherals. Some missions like the one I eyed had a community developed around it. With that age /era it then leads to what was going on for major dealings with whom and what.

Appreciate the guidance. I am juggling a few ideas at the moment. Since my family is relocating to the US Southwest I am researching this region as well but will also research Ontario as we will also maintain a residence here. Wondering if you know if the Jesuits were involved in the mining of precious metals in Ontario? Northern Ontario is a major gold mining hub currently and gold was first discovered in Ontario in 1866, which would have been much after the Jesuits first arrival but given the Jesuits clandestine appetite for precious metals, if they knew the whereabouts of gold in Ontario they would most definitely mine it. Ty.
 

Appreciate the guidance. I am juggling a few ideas at the moment. Since my family is relocating to the US Southwest I am researching this region as well but will also research Ontario as we will also maintain a residence here. Wondering if you know if the Jesuits were involved in the mining of precious metals in Ontario? Northern Ontario is a major gold mining hub currently and gold was first discovered in Ontario in 1866, which would have been much after the Jesuits first arrival but given the Jesuits clandestine appetite for precious metals, if they knew the whereabouts of gold in Ontario they would most definitely mine it. Ty.
I've no accounts of Jesuit mining in Canada.
Or of thier visiting copper sites in the Superior copper region South. With it's random silver interspersed amid copper.
Iron range is there too.
Seems unlikely they were not aware of copper. And natives networking likely would have seen copper being acquired one way or another.

Small seasonal windows for major works outside wouldn't lend labor to mining projects unless a lot of labor was available. And that labor would need to at least be fed.

Jesuits hired others at times. (No , I'm not suggesting for mining.) I don't know how they paid them.

You've likely encountered the same stories of missions being abandoned in haste and the little value Jesuits had in relics and precious metals were transported to (?).
As little as most missionaries seemed to own themselves , the church had valuable (metal) items for services. And some had "bling" to impress visitors with glorious visions of heaven.
I wouldn't expect much in most missions up North back when. Pretty humble stuff.
Just getting shelters and some steady food going as well as preserving some for winter was a busy ambitious project. Let alone being missionaries. Who tended to travel a lot when they could. Travel leaves projects at or near a mission no longer in ones control. Like mining. With secrecy risked more each time anyone else gets involved.
What did they do with thier churches few on site valuables then? Stuff for basic services they likely carried with them.
 

Chinese coastal trading ships.... a ton of those were lost, the problem would be getting permission from the different authorities.
 

Chinese coastal trading ships.... a ton of those were lost, the problem would be getting permission from the different authorities.
Any resources I can read about this? I thought most of the pacific trade was via the annual Manilla Galleon voyage. Of course shipwrecks r more costly and logistical heavy to search for and excavate assuming you can even get permits, and then you have the risk the government comes swooping in steals your find like they did with Kenworthy's Manilla Galleon off the coast of Catalina Island.
 

no, no.... you are concentrating on new-world shipping..... consider that for many hundreds of years more, Asians were trading with Asians....
 

no, no.... you are concentrating on new-world shipping..... consider that for many hundreds of years more, Asians were trading with Asians....
Very true, but I'm located in North America and the logistics involved in searching for treasure in a foreign jurisdiction many 1000s of miles away from home is too much hassle for me.
 

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it will be a hassle everywhere...
 

Good luck in your quest to find that big treasure. I do not research that type of thing. I do however use plat books and maps to find the old homesteads, school houses and churches that were once out in the country. I just dig my treasures one silver at a time !
 

Hello TreasureNet, I am a relative newbie to this forum although have been interested in lost valuables for many years. I've been lurking on this site for a few months reading up on details of various shipwrecks which I find so fascinating but only recently created an account. I appreciate the level of detail many of the researchers go into.

I have been reading a lot about the American Civil and Revolutionary Wars, California Gold Rush and shipping lanes to and from Panama and the Spanish treasure fleet routes taking riches from the New World back to Spain. There is a lot to digest and with existing wrecks not fully scavenged or even completely found there is so much an aspiring treasure hunter could focus on.

Before I dive deep into any one area, I wanted to ask ya'll here - are there any type of treasures that you think are not worth the time, money and effort to research and investigate? The lost Confederate Gold after the Civil War ended appears to be a good candidate for not pursuing given that it may not exist and so much has moved around.

I'm fascinated by stagecoach robberies by bandit during the California/Nevada gold rush but unsure where to begin to investigate all the bandits and travel lanes from the Sierra Foothills to San Francisco. Bandits would often rob stagecoaches and hide the loot and often be killed or arrested before they could pick up the bounty. Also, wondering if there were other ships like the SS Central America that went down carrying California gold rush gold. Also a lot of old now abandoned railways carrying Colorado gold were robbed with gold buried along the railway lines or nearby. Any good books ya'll have come across on this subject I would be very grateful.

Also, any ships in the Caribbean or the Pacific side of Mexico/California/South America that are known to have gone down with large quantities of valuables which haven't received a whole lot of attention by treasure hunters and remain unfound? I know the San Miguel of the 1715 fleet remains elusive as does the San Miguel from 1551 that sank off the coast of Santo Domingo. There is also the Santa Maria that sank off the coast of Ecuador in 1590 that Margaret Brandeis apparently found (see link below) but did not pursue or tell the authorities given the uncooperative nature of the Ecuadorian government. It may not be worth pursing if she didn't pursue it.


I was wondering in general - where do ya'll get your ideas from? I plan to make a trip out to Seville, Spain to spend a couple of months doing research so that could potentially give me ideas but wondering if ya'll know of good books or resources I could study for idea generation I would be very grateful. I'm the kind of guy who doesn't want to infringe on other peoples ideas even though I know its all fair game so long as you aren't infringing on pre-existing leases & private property. But I like to do things that most aren't doing.

Also, since I'm a newbie, I wanted to ask - is there an etiquette that treasure hunters should abide by? I know the governments are encroaching on private life and private enterprise more and more to get their cut of the pie and there is the risk that a government could outright confiscate your loot without sharing any of the spoils of the find. So is it better to search and scavenge without alerting the thieves in government? I know this is an open ended question and many will have different opinions on the matter and I welcome the discussion.

My concern is why be like Dennis Parada who was advised to alert the FBI about potential Civil War era gold find in Dents Run, PA. The parasites in government came swooping down and stole the gold without even the slightest thank you, or reward or recognition.

I don't care for fan fare. This is all about fun and adventure and there is nothing like holding bullion or gems and a piece of history in your own hands.

I also wanted to mention that I am retired and still south of 50 yrs so I have sufficient energy to do hands on work and have sufficient capital to finance any treasure search without requiring outside investors. Given that, I am looking to jump into research about a fascinating lost treasure and hopefully the adventure of a life time.

Appreciate the discussion and feedback. It's an honor to be part of this community. Thank you kindly.
Some times the REWARD we get is the KNOWLEDGE we get from reading :) and dreaming
 

Hello TreasureNet, I am a relative newbie to this forum although have been interested in lost valuables for many years. I've been lurking on this site for a few months reading up on details of various shipwrecks which I find so fascinating but only recently created an account. I appreciate the level of detail many of the researchers go into.

I have been reading a lot about the American Civil and Revolutionary Wars, California Gold Rush and shipping lanes to and from Panama and the Spanish treasure fleet routes taking riches from the New World back to Spain. There is a lot to digest and with existing wrecks not fully scavenged or even completely found there is so much an aspiring treasure hunter could focus on.

Before I dive deep into any one area, I wanted to ask ya'll here - are there any type of treasures that you think are not worth the time, money and effort to research and investigate? The lost Confederate Gold after the Civil War ended appears to be a good candidate for not pursuing given that it may not exist and so much has moved around.

I'm fascinated by stagecoach robberies by bandit during the California/Nevada gold rush but unsure where to begin to investigate all the bandits and travel lanes from the Sierra Foothills to San Francisco. Bandits would often rob stagecoaches and hide the loot and often be killed or arrested before they could pick up the bounty. Also, wondering if there were other ships like the SS Central America that went down carrying California gold rush gold. Also a lot of old now abandoned railways carrying Colorado gold were robbed with gold buried along the railway lines or nearby. Any good books ya'll have come across on this subject I would be very grateful.

Also, any ships in the Caribbean or the Pacific side of Mexico/California/South America that are known to have gone down with large quantities of valuables which haven't received a whole lot of attention by treasure hunters and remain unfound? I know the San Miguel of the 1715 fleet remains elusive as does the San Miguel from 1551 that sank off the coast of Santo Domingo. There is also the Santa Maria that sank off the coast of Ecuador in 1590 that Margaret Brandeis apparently found (see link below) but did not pursue or tell the authorities given the uncooperative nature of the Ecuadorian government. It may not be worth pursing if she didn't pursue it.


I was wondering in general - where do ya'll get your ideas from? I plan to make a trip out to Seville, Spain to spend a couple of months doing research so that could potentially give me ideas but wondering if ya'll know of good books or resources I could study for idea generation I would be very grateful. I'm the kind of guy who doesn't want to infringe on other peoples ideas even though I know its all fair game so long as you aren't infringing on pre-existing leases & private property. But I like to do things that most aren't doing.

Also, since I'm a newbie, I wanted to ask - is there an etiquette that treasure hunters should abide by? I know the governments are encroaching on private life and private enterprise more and more to get their cut of the pie and there is the risk that a government could outright confiscate your loot without sharing any of the spoils of the find. So is it better to search and scavenge without alerting the thieves in government? I know this is an open ended question and many will have different opinions on the matter and I welcome the discussion.

My concern is why be like Dennis Parada who was advised to alert the FBI about potential Civil War era gold find in Dents Run, PA. The parasites in government came swooping down and stole the gold without even the slightest thank you, or reward or recognition.

I don't care for fan fare. This is all about fun and adventure and there is nothing like holding bullion or gems and a piece of history in your own hands.

I also wanted to mention that I am retired and still south of 50 yrs so I have sufficient energy to do hands on work and have sufficient capital to finance any treasure search without requiring outside investors. Given that, I am looking to jump into research about a fascinating lost treasure and hopefully the adventure of a life time.

Appreciate the discussion and feedback. It's an honor to be part of this community. Thank you kindly.
 

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