Snyder’s cluster or archaic?

[Older The Better]

I found this guy today at a site I’ve got dated to the cuestas phase hopewell and pamona cultures. A Snyder’s type point would fit neatly into my current interpretation of my site but after looking through overstreet it seemed to fit better with middle archaic points. I’d love to find an archaic element but my brain says probably Snyder’s cluster. I’m in se Kansas. What do you guys think?

 

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[Arrow1492]

Certainly not Snyder. Too small and flaking is off. Most likely middle archaic such as a Brewerton. Remember sites were often reused. Finding archaic material on a hopewell site is common.

 

[Older The Better]

I agree not a true Snyder’s, Grand is in the Snyder’s cluster which I think is a contender. I’m fairly sure this site was in continuous use from hopewell to to the 1800’s. An archaic point would be great that would add another layer to its history and give me another group of people to research. Looks like brewerton is the right shape but not the right area. Maybe it’s a Kansas cousin

 

[Neanderthal]

It's a Grand point, Hopewell.

 

[Older The Better]

It's a Grand point, Hopewell.

The more I looked on my own that’s what I’m thinking too. Fits well with what I’ve got. Including pottery bits with Hopewell elements.

 

[Tdog]

The more I looked on my own that’s what I’m thinking too. Fits well with what I’ve got. Including pottery bits with Hopewell elements.

Matt knows his stuff. If he says it's a Grand, then it's a Grand.

 

[Older The Better]

Matt knows his stuff. If he says it's a Grand, then it's a Grand.

Then it’s settled haha now if I could find that solved button on my phone app

 

[Arrow1492]

It’s not a Grand. Base is off and flaking doesn’t match.

 

[Older The Better]

I thought the base matched grand well... at least in overstreet. The examples on projectile points .com were a little different




The only hang up for me was the barbed shoulders and “typically well flaked” but I think use wear and variation in points still makes grand reasonable

Here’s some other points I thought were a possibility, some you have to imagine a lot of use and resharpening

ferry
jordan
pulaski

 

[Arrow1492]

Not a grand

 

[MAMucker]

Not a grand

Arrow1492,
Interested to know why you are sure it’s not a grand. Please share your knowledge and observations on this piece.

 

[ohp733]

Nice point anyhow. I find similar here in eastern okla

 

[Arrow1492]

IMO it’s too small. The base however has a grand look. It could be a grand variation.....

 

[Neanderthal]

IMO it’s too small. The base however has a grand look. It could be a grand variation.....

Not too small at all, it has been heavily resharpened. It's not only a Grand, it's a pretty classic Grand for the area.

 

[Neanderthal]

The examples on projectile points .com were a little different

A great number of the images on that whole site are completely incorrect and misleading.

 

[Older The Better]

A great number of the images on that whole site are completely incorrect and misleading.

That’s why I favor overstreet. The website is kind of like an alternate opinion, if it aligns with my book then it’s a solid I’d, if it doesn’t I go with overstreet.

 

[Neanderthal]

That’s why I favor overstreet. The website is kind of like an alternate opinion, if it aligns with my book then it’s a solid I’d, if it doesn’t I go with overstreet.

Previous editions of Overstreet were plagued with the same problem; anyone could submit images calling a point whatever they want and there's a good chance that it would be published as such.

 

[Older The Better]

I thought overstreet was pretty good haha at least I’ve got the newest one, what would you recommend for id points?

 

[Neanderthal]

I thought overstreet was pretty good haha at least I’ve got the newest one, what would you recommend for id points?

The most accurate typology guide that covers the whole United States at the moment is the Overstreet 15th edition (ONLY the 15th edition). For more localized information on your area, you may want to pick up Jack Ray's "Projectile point types in Missouri and portions of adjacent states...", and Don Dickson's book on the Ozark Bluffdwellers. I'm working on another project right now that hopefully will help collectors and answer a lot of questions, but it's still a ways off.