Slate Gorget Authenticity

[OntarioArch]

Using just a magnifying glass, I do not see any 'machine marks' like from a file, sandpaper, Dremel, or industrial grinding wheel.
The holes look like they were started wide, then taper narrower as the depth increased....and holes are drilled in from both sides.
I do not see any circular machine marks like a steel drill bit would leave inside the holes;
The drilled holes from each side do not line up perfectly - close, but they are offset a bit.
Both artifacts, but especially the Curvy One, exhibit tapering of the thickness from one end to the other. Curvey One actually bows to a significant extent.

Patina? I have no idea what patina on a slate gorget should look like vs. a modern reproduction.

I hope they are authentic, but more importantly I want to learn how to determine authenticity of slate gorgets and if these are indeed not authentic....I want to know!

Purchased at an estate sale in upstate New York. No provenance. Thanks for the help!

 

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[uniface]

For what authentic patinization looks like check the pictures at page bottoms of Jon Dickenson's website ( For Sale Page 1- prehistoricartifacts.com )

(No commercial relation involved -- he's just the best and most reliable resource for this).

 

[OntarioArch]

I don't see any slate artifacts there, Uni., just chert. There is a difference, isn't there?

 

[Indian Steve]

The holes on the bar don't look quite right. Are the holes tapered from both sides all the way to the middle or is there a straight hole in the center?

 

[quito]

The color of materials in the holes both pieces appear different. First thing I noticed

 

[OntarioArch]

Dang. Straight holes in the middle.

 

[OntarioArch]

So that means the time interior stone has not been exposed to the environment as long as the exterior stone? And therefore the holes are modern?

 

[DeepseekerADS]

I trust Indian Steve, he's an old timer as far as Indian culture and archeology are concerned - he began as a preteen, just a bit ago of course He'll give you straight on advice.

 

[OntarioArch]

So explain to me how a 'faker' created a bowed, warped piece of slate, smooth as a spanked baby's butt....with no machine marks, no file marks. Dang.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

So explain to me how a 'faker' created a bowed, warped piece of slate, smooth as a spanked baby's butt....with no machine marks, no file marks. Dang.

To answer your question they start with slate already bowed. The holes should be drilled from both sides and not have a the smooth center that appears in pictures. You would be surprised what fakers can do and the extent they go to. They even use acid to try to simulate patina on the artifacts.

 

[Indian Steve]

I would say that someone drilled it with a modern bit {straight edges} and then tapered each side to make it appear to be stone drilled. They had me excited until I noticed the holes. You aren't the first to buy a fake. I know that I have and i'm sure most collectors that buy relics have. Learn from it and move on.

 

[Indian Steve]

If you don't want to keep them, take them to a powwow and resell them as repros. Reenactors would buy them to wear.

 

[OntarioArch]

I am still learning, and proud of it...

I took a second and third look at the holes, and took magnified photos. Cleaned out the holes with acetone. Cleaned surface with acetone, no color comes off, The rectangular gorget exhibits slightly tapered holes for 3 or 4 millimeters depth, but then the majority of the hole depth is perfectly cylindrical. Plus, I now see what I believe to be machine marks on the inside of the tapered portion of the holes. Do you agree they are 'machine marks' from a modern tool?

But the 'Curvy Gorget' exhibits a tapered hole all the way to the center, where the tapered hole from the opposite side meets up with it. No cylindrical holes. No machine marks.

Very interesting and informative. Thank you for making me go back for a second/third look. Nothing like experience. I am going to say the rectangular piece is a modern reproduction, but is there a chance the 'Curvy Gorget' is authentic? I am still open to education on the matter.

First 2 pics: tapered holes in 'Curvy Gorget' Second 2 pics: cylindrical holes on rectangular gorget

 

[OntarioArch]

How does someone produce tapered holes through slate with no 'machine marks' showing? What would be most helpful is a magnified/close-up pic of a 'correct', tapered, 'stone drilled' hole. Can't say that I have ever seen one....

 

[The Grim Reaper]

Not liking the "swirl" marks in the third picture of the close ups. I can't say 100% for sure whether they are good or bad, but my gut says that I personally would not take a chance on either.

 

[OntarioArch]

Not liking the "swirl" marks in the third picture of the close ups. I can't say 100% for sure whether they are good or bad, but my gut says that I personally would not take a chance on either.

Agree, Grim, that is the rectangle gorget with cylindrical hole...agree its fake....but still holding out for curvy gorget with tapered holes. I plan on sending it out for authentication and will post here again when complete.

 

[uniface]

There should be a number of hardstone pieces (slate included) on Jon's site -- go through all the pages to the bottom of each.

 

[ToddsPoint]

The drilling on the square one looks modern. The marks on the curved ones hole could easily be made with a flint drill. Flint drills leave drag marks because the cutting edge is not uniform. Looks like flint drilling to me. Modern or old? Not sure. Tool marks, whether made by an Indian or modern made can all be removed. It's a matter of polishing correctly with finer and finer grits. That's what lapidaries do...and some Indians did. Gary

 

[dognose]

To me those points which indicate a modern drill:
1) the pattern of the groove in the hole
2) the small nicks on the very rim edge are chatter marks where the drill skips, both have these marks
3) the bar has a center hole which appears to be cylindrical in shape, the conical holes should have met. this looks like to me the stone was drilled then countersunk to give the conical hole appearance.

In those slate relics I have found, often one side of the hole has more wear from the suspension strap. On the one hole slate it likely would have been on the side closest towards the rim, and I see no wear there.

 

[OntarioArch]

Thanks to all. "Won't Be Fooled Again" by slate gorgets/pendants. I hope.