Slate Birdstone

[Sunny Side]

This one would be a good suitor for the Flute slide theory for the use of Birdstones. It has a deep flute channel on the base and is drilled 4 times. I love the material on this one.Thanks for looking

 

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[dognose]

The only birdstones I have seen with holes other than those in the base are those that have the holes worn through and broke out. This that you are showing here is an anomaly. I dont recall seeing any with holes like this in my Townsend Birstone book.


What is the "Flute slide theory" you speak of.

So all these 'unique' items are out of the platter collection; those that were on the @wfplattercollection.com domain? Before the domain was taken down?

 

[Sunny Side]

The only birdstones I have seen with holes other than those in the base are those that have the holes worn through and broke out. This that you are showing here is an anomaly. I dont recall seeing any with holes like this in my Townsend Birstone book.


What is the "Flute slide theory" you speak of.

So all these 'unique' items are out of the platter collection; those that were on the @wfplattercollection.com domain? Before the domain was taken down?

Yes. He had around 3000 pieces total. A relatively unknown gold mine. I could never post them all on that web page.

It’s not my theory, but it’s out there. Berner knew of the collection. He saw the Birdstones pictured and told me they are rare, super rare and he has seen a few others.

 

[dognose]

Seriously? Your reply to my inquiry of the "Flute slide theory"; is simply "it’s out there."?

Where is this Flute slide theory? Is this a published archaeological reference? I am asking as I would like to know more about this.
Educate me on this Flute slide theory.

Being vague about this and other area is making a gray area even more opaque for me.

John Berner knew of the collection? I knew John fairly well from relic shows, and his time on the CSASI officers board. I respected his opinions. However your claim may be tough to verify since he recently passed away. Did John provide any written documentation on this item?


Do you have any documentation of any other birdstones with holes such as this in a reputable periodical?

 

[Sunny Side]

It sounds like you are upset with me because I chose not to write a 1000 word description as to what the “theory”is. Of course the aforementioned theory is not peer reviewed and published, i was being a bit facetious in my post regarding the flute theory. There are many theories on these pieces as any seasoned collector should know, some of them ridiculous. You have access to a computer, google it. Any owner of a Birdstone is likely to want to educate themselves further, I did this 20 years ago when I purchased my first.

John Berner did know of the collection and I am aware of his passing. I too spoke with John for many years, had man many items papered by him because he was the best in my opinion. I called him about 6 or 7 years ago and asked if he knew about the collection and he said he had. I am confused why I need to verify any information to you, sorry if this sounds terse.

Finally, every single artifact that I have posted is authentic, the Birdstones I have posted here are authentic with no modern tampering and this should be obvious even from a photo. I thought it would be nice to show some nice relics on this site, didn’t think I would have to go through a deposition.

 

[dognose]

I am not upset with you at all.

However I note you again did not answer the question except to google it and that your theory is facetious.
I did google it after your post mentioning it and did not find a satisfactory definition which fit your use.

To date I am not aware of my asking for verification.

Your post have been vague and your claim of authentic is tenuous at best as I have mentioned.

While I have not labeled a single item as non-authentic, I also have not labeled any as authentic. Its virtually impossible to determine authenticity from a photo.

I only have inquired about history and provenance documentation. To indicate an item is out of an old collection in of and by itself does not assure an item authentic as reproductions have been made for well over one hundred years.

Sure you have been posting some nice items. That I have not disclaimed.

 

[Sunny Side]

I am not upset with you at all.

However I note you again did not answer the question except to google it and that your theory is facetious.
I did google it after your post mentioning it and did not find a satisfactory definition which fit your use.

To date I am not aware of my asking for verification.

Your post have been vague and your claim of authentic is tenuous at best as I have mentioned.

While I have not labeled a single item as non-authentic, I also have not labeled any as authentic. Its virtually impossible to determine authenticity from a photo.

I only have inquired about history and provenance documentation. To indicate an item is out of an old collection in of and by itself does not assure an item authentic as reproductions have been made for well over one hundred years.

Sure you have been posting some nice items. That I have not disclaimed.

Ok thanks for the explanation. We are all entitled to our opinions and comments. Can we agree that there are more great collections out there in this big world than the Copelands, Townsends, parks, young and the 5 or 10 others we hear and read of all the time? I know of a collection in southern Ohio right now that hasn’t left the old farmhouse it’s in and it is a killer. Maybe 150 pieces but some of the best I have seen. Nobody knows about it and it was put together before Mueser, Bunch etc.... how am I going to provenance that one when I get it?

 

[MAMucker]

Beautiful pieces. Way outside of my NA artifact knowledge. Can you summarize this flute slide theory?

 

[Sunny Side]

There have been unconfirmed accounts of Birdstones associated with bone flutes. In 1935, Charles Willoughby, thought it was possible they were used as slides in courting flutes because they resembled meso American alligator slides used which have been confirmed in the archaeological record. I guess he thought they were used to regulate sound. This is among the plethora of theories out there to ponder.

 

[dognose]

I do agree that there are many, undocumented, collections out in the collecting community.


I thumbed through my copy of "Prehistoric Antiquities of Indiana" by Lilly and found no birds drilled or with what appears to be a radical concave base such as your bird.


I then thumbed through my of Townsends "Birdstones of The North American Indian" and did find some interesting relics similar to yours in a couple of place.


1) page 360 AND 361, Connecticut Birdstones, pate 123, item C and D (same bird).


Text section:
Hartford County. Right and left views, respectively, Faintly stripped gray slate. Note the raised circular eyes. After the front perforation broke out, drilling was accomplished from both sides. A deep notch was cut at each side of the read after the perforations broke out.




2) page 290 AND 291, Fraudulent Specimens, plate 90, items E, F and L


Text section:
Genuine specimens receive side drilling only after the original holes are broken or worn out and a repair job is effected.


Townsend was recognized in the collecting community as an authority on Birdstones for his deep and through knowledge of them.


That said; I want to emphasis I again that I am not labeling a single item you have posted as non-authentic.
And I also am not labeling any as authentic.




Bottom Line:
I AM saying that there are more than one point of identification on each of the items you've posted to makes me suspect and wary of a few of them.


Personally, I would have passed on them.

 

[Sunny Side]

I do agree that there are many, undocumented, collections out in the collecting community.


I thumbed through my copy of "Prehistoric Antiquities of Indiana" by Lilly and found no birds drilled or with what appears to be a radical concave base such as your bird.


I then thumbed through my of Townsends "Birdstones of The North American Indian" and did find some interesting relics similar to yours in a couple of place.


1) page 360 AND 361, Connecticut Birdstones, pate 123, item C and D (same bird).


Text section:
Hartford County. Right and left views, respectively, Faintly stripped gray slate. Note the raised circular eyes. After the front perforation broke out, drilling was accomplished from both sides. A deep notch was cut at each side of the read after the perforations broke out.




2) page 290 AND 291, Fraudulent Specimens, plate 90, items E, F and L


Text section:
Genuine specimens receive side drilling only after the original holes are broken or worn out and a repair job is effected.


Townsend was recognized in the collecting community as an authority on Birdstones for his deep and through knowledge of them.


That said; I want to emphasis I again that I am not labeling a single item you have posted as non-authentic.
And I also am not labeling any as authentic.




Bottom Line:
I AM saying that there are more than one point of identification on each of the items you've posted to makes me suspect and wary of a few of them.


Personally, I would have passed on them.

I respect the old publications and admire Townsend and the others. In the broad spectrum of the collecting community, townsends book is representative of a small selection of Birdstones assembled with the help of his close friends and associates within a relatively small locality. Of course we know, many of the Birdstones pictured in that book are not authentic, in fact one or two Guffy carnival fakes were included. Townsend also fervently believed that Birdstones were Atlatl handles.

I am not a fan to declare any early publication as an accurate reference. It is a representation, not a reference. Same goes with the Lutz book and others.

The cousin of the Birdstone is the Bar Amulet. There are examples known of fluted and side drilled Bar Amulets. I am a careful experienced collector. I am beyond comfortable with my acquisitions.