Silver Coins 1783 & 1786

[-Ki-]

Silver Coins 1783 & 1786

check these beauties out, silver dollars from 1783.... Could These be just like the ones Swift minted, and coined...
a great find : -Ki-

 

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[Goodyguy]

Re: Silver Coins 1783

Ki, did you find those? They are awesome, super find!

GG~

 

[swiftsearcher]

Re: Silver Coins 1783

Sorry to burst your bubble, but that is NOT the type of coin Swift minted. Your coin is referred to as a "Pillar Dollar". Swift minted French Crowns (technical name Ecu), along with Silver British Crowns and some Gold Crowns. I will check my files and post a pic of one of the Swift coins (though I will delete the date, as Swift only used one year for these and I will explain why in my book!).

 

[swiftsearcher]

Re: Silver Coins 1783

Here is the back of one of Swift's French Crowns (or Ecus). The crown on the reverse is why many people during Swift's time referred to these coins as Crowns instead of their proper name (Ecus).

 

[-Ki-]

Re: Silver Coins 1783

Sorry to burst your bubble Swiftsearcher but i know what these coins are. The backs is spanish, these are silver dollars, first currency in the united states... I found these in a rock shelter.........

 

[swiftsearcher]

Re: Silver Coins 1783

Ki, They are Spanish Milled Pillar Dollars (see link below). I use to be a coin dealer, so I am aware what they are. The first US minted Silver Dollar (Flowing Hair) was not minted until 1794. The Pillar dollars were used until that time (and afterward) as currency in the US. They were a favorite amongst Melungeon counterfeiters of the day and SEVERAL have been found on Pine Mountain around the old Melungeon sites.

You stated in your first post that these could be like the ones Swift minted. Well, they are NOT. Swift minted French and British CROWNS - not Pillar Dollars.

http://www.newworldtreasures.com/milledpillar.htm

 

[-Ki-]

Re: Silver Coins 1783

thanks for the link swiftsearcher

 

[-Ki-]

Re: Silver Coins 1783

is this the crown ive been hoping to find

 

[swiftsearcher]

Re: Silver Coins 1783

Nope, that is a PILLAR DOLLAR. That is SPANISH. Swift stated he minted French and British Crowns - NOT SPANISH!

Here is a pic of a French Crown (I didn't post one of Swift's b/c I don't want to give away the date he used until my book comes out).

 

[-Ki-]

Re: Silver Coins 1783

Thats pretty cool swiftsearcher.... i love any coin from the 1700's. there great for the collection..... happy hunting and thanks for the info

 

[swiftsearcher]

Re: Silver Coins 1783

Ki,

I always try to help out when I can. While I am no treasure expert, as some on this board are, I do know a thing or two about Swift. The MAIN reason I want to publish my book about Swift, since I know it will not be on the NY Best Seller list and make me a fortune, is to get the TRUTH out there. There have been too many untruths and misinformation published about the Swift Mines over the years. I simply want to set the record straight and prove that they do exist and show everyone where they are!

Happy hunting!

Scott Elkins
"Swiftsearcher"

 

[swiftsearcher]

Re: Silver Coins 1783

No, this was shown as an example. I have not divulged any information on a Swift coin to anyone other than Ralph Hurst as of yet and will not until the book comes out. BTW - the date is also different on a Swift/Montgomery minted Crown. Also, there are GOLD Crowns minted by Swift/Montgomery!

The reason I put this example up is that several people were referring to Pillar Dollars as "Swift Coins", when they are NOT. Swift and Montgomery minted Silver and Gold Crowns. The Melungeons minted the Pillar Dollars. Several caches of Pillar Dollars have been found in different areas (including the Water Cave) and people were led to believe they found one of Swift's Caches (some even thought in error that the Water Cave find was the Great Cave Swift mentions in his journals). This is another reason I want to put the book out, as there is soooooo much WRONG lore when it comes to Swift - heck, some people even print articles/books stating Swift minted DOLLARS, when the first Dollar didn't come out until 1794!

There is one thread on here I recently replied to where someone mentions finding "something" by going 50 poles West. They had confused the direction WEST with the WEST MINE. Swift stated go 50 Poles SOUTH of the main furnace rockhouse and you will find the WEST MINE!

Don't worry, I am going to try and get out to search for the Great Cave tomorrow and try to hurry things up, as I am going to start/finish my book as soon as I find the Great Cave. I have all the pics, maps, journals, notes etc. I just need to organize everything (which might take a few weeks in and of itself due to the massive amount of information and 1000's of pics I have). HOWEVER, WHEN MY BOOK FINALLY DOES COME OUT, IT WILL BE THE DEFINITIVE WORK ON SWIFT AND HIS SILVER MINES, PLUS WILL SHOW EVERYTHING MENTIONED IN THE JOURNALS IN DETAIL AND EVEN GIVE CLEAR DIRECTIONS TO FINDING EVERYTHING FOR YOURSELF (IF YOU WISH TO DO SO)!

On an interesting note, while we are speaking about coins/silver, I found the half-moon shaped rockhouse Swift mentioned in his journals a year or so ago (when I found the Rich Mine). Swift and Co. had poured the silver from a large rock onto another rock below that had a hole cut out for the PIGS! This was an awesome find, as I could picture them pouring the hot silver ore into these to make the pigs. However, I did find my former mentor's sifter behind this rock, where he had gotten up all the slag years ago. This is an interesting story I will mention in my book itself, as I couldn't find the main furnace rockhouse and waterfall, after finding the first mine and was in contact with this person after finding the first mine. He did lead me to the correct creek (turned out I was reading the map incorrectly and thought I was on the correct creek, but was not). However, in the end, turns out he was using me to make sure he had gotten all the slag and had covered his tracks, leaving no ore, coins or slag behind! However, I left his sifter in the half-moon rockhouse. If nobody finds/steals it, the readers of the book, when they travel there, will still be able to see it in the rockhouse (though, I moved it to the back of the rockhouse, while I checked for slag near the rock where the silver was poured into pigs). In the main rockhouse (near the waterfall), the right side has been dug out about six ft. (where the cache was hidden). However, there is a HUGE coffee table shaped rock in the middle of the rockhouse where Montgomery and/or Swift made the Crowns (I will have pic of this in the book as well - this is near where I found the old Pre-Civil War ball peen/chasing hammer believed to have been used to knock the silver out of the moulds).

It is so relaxing and wonderful out in the Mountains - especially when you KNOW you are at a place where Swift and Co. mined ore, melted ore, hid crowns, etc. etc. I can say this with certainty - ALL of the places are JUST AS SWIFT DESCRIBED THEM IN HIS JOURNALS! ALSO, ALL OF THE DISTANCES SWIFT GIVES ARE PRECISE! Also, right over the slope West of the Rich Mine was the Buffalo Rock (though, someone and I have an idea who, had chipped away Swift and Co.'s carvings on the bottom of the rock) and directly above it was the TABLE TOP ROCK, just as Swift described!!!!

 

[-Ki-]

Re: Silver Coins 1783

Thought id tell how i found these two "Spanish Milled Dollars". It was on one of the first warm days of early spring of last year, I was out in the Red River Gorge mushroom hunting and decided to eat my lunch in a rather large rockhouse i had walked by a few hours earlier. After eating i started looking around in the rockhouse for arrowheads or anything else i could possably find. There was a large rock at the back of the shelter that looked to be out of place. The rock was about 2 foot long and almost covered with leaves, after brushing the leaves off i noticed their was a small carving of a diamond. I turned the rock over and was amazed to find these two beautiful Milled Dollars in really good shape, they was almost black from tarnish. No detector was used to find these coins, i just simply turned over a rock. Now everytime I'm hunting rockhouses i always turn over rocks, thought id share this little story with you guys. I would love to find out just how long these coins might have been hidden under this rock, and also who might have hid these. Could have been Indians to early settlers, and the coins could have been hid under that rock anywhere from 150 to 200 years ago. Also id like to thank Swiftsearcher for helping me understand what coin to look for that Swift and Montgomery had coined.... -Ki-

 

[-Ki-]

Re: Silver Coins 1783

"The Spanish Milled Dollar"
Valued at 8 reales, and otherwise known as the Pillar dollar or piece of eight, has been given a place in romantic fiction unequaled by any other coin. This time-honored piece and its fractional parts (one-half, one, two, and four reales) were the principle coins of the American colonists, and were the forerunners of our own silver dollar and its fractional divisions. Thomas Jefferson even recommended to the Continental Congress on September 2, 1776, that the new country adopt the silver Spanish milled dollar as its monetary unit of value.

The pictures of the two coins above bears the ("M" with a small circle above) is the mintmark for Mexico City.
Just a little information on the Spanish Milled Dollar from "The official Red Book"......... -Ki-

 

[jack flash]

Re: Silver Coins 1783

That's a great find and thats a great area to look. I have a mill dollar that came from the water cave. A couple of my friends also have one of these. They are heavily tarnished but I have seen several in excellent condition. I have seen cobs, French crowns, mill dollars, an English coin and German Thallars that people have found. Whether Swift was a pirate, smuggler, counterfeiter, or whatever, its hard to believe he and his talented associates only used one type of coin. Whatever was going on was done on a grand scale. I think a number of different counterfeit coins were passed. What was the Scotch company doing to warrant large payoffs to Swift and his partners? Not all counterfeit coins were passed here. There were other countries and other continents.
Swift went to Cuba and picked up Guise and Jefferies. If Seth Montgomery could make dies for silver crowns, then he probably was talented enough to make dies for other coins as well.

 

[Curtis]

Re: Silver Coins 1783

I think you nailed it right here..."went to Cuba"... still occupied by Spain at Swift's time....bet he already had some dies for Spanish coins...they were very very popular and Swift and company could have made them along with the crowns. The colonies sued them just like they did the crowns...so we cannot say he didn't make them. He just mentions the crowns being made because that is what they made the most of (maybe). I am not saying that is for sure, just really plausible. In the area I have been looking (near Grayson) somebody found a bunch of Spanish coins in the late 1800s.....like four kegs of them. Others have found Spanish coins too, and SILVER Bars! I was near there last Sunday and took pictures (on cell phone) of four yes four Natural Rock Bridges, oh, there were Indian stairsteps there too! And the Ranger said there were over 100 Indian camp sites within a 5 mile radius! Somebody was doing something there.

 

[caveman2]

Re: Silver Coins 1783 & 1786

i have been doing some research, and talking to my friend that grew up in menifee co. searching for the mines as he grew up. I'm planning on going up there in january or so when everything dies, hope i can find it

 

[Lucky13]

Re: Silver Coins 1783 & 1786

The thing about this legend is that in all reality you`ll be searching for silver ore not refined silver or minted coins,Although it is highly likely the silversmiths did refine and mint the coins while they worked the mines, im pretty sure that all of the remaining hidden silver would be silver ore,The reason i say this is because the many trips swift made (even if you dis credit different travels and dates supposedly made by swift and co) the minted coins would have been the main purpose for travel.As well as to buy new equipment and supplies to keep mines operable.Im sure that of all the mines running under swifts authority,alot of silver would have been left behind but in all probablity it would have still been in the form of silver ore due to the inability to move massive weight up and down the big sandy watershed. They wouldnt have hauled 6000 pounds of silver ore upstream when it contained only 300 pounds of silver,If that much. But this is just an opinion of mine. Happy Hunting and good luck,Awesome post and photos.

 

[Sandpit]

Re: Silver Coins 1783 & 1786

The thing about this legend is that in all reality you`ll be searching for silver ore not refined silver or minted coins,Although it is highly likely the silversmiths did refine and mint the coins while they worked the mines, im pretty sure that all of the remaining hidden silver would be silver ore,The reason i say this is because the many trips swift made (even if you dis credit different travels and dates supposedly made by swift and co) the minted coins would have been the main purpose for travel.As well as to buy new equipment and supplies to keep mines operable.Im sure that of all the mines running under swifts authority,alot of silver would have been left behind but in all probablity it would have still been in the form of silver ore due to the inability to move massive weight up and down the big sandy watershed. They wouldnt have hauled 6000 pounds of silver ore upstream when it contained only 300 pounds of silver,If that much. But this is just an opinion of mine. Happy Hunting and good luck,Awesome post and photos.

 

[vamelungeon]

Re: Silver Coins 1783 & 1786

The thing about this legend is that in all reality you`ll be searching for silver ore not refined silver or minted coins,Although it is highly likely the silversmiths did refine and mint the coins while they worked the mines, im pretty sure that all of the remaining hidden silver would be silver ore,The reason i say this is because the many trips swift made (even if you dis credit different travels and dates supposedly made by swift and co) the minted coins would have been the main purpose for travel.As well as to buy new equipment and supplies to keep mines operable.Im sure that of all the mines running under swifts authority,alot of silver would have been left behind but in all probablity it would have still been in the form of silver ore due to the inability to move massive weight up and down the big sandy watershed. They wouldnt have hauled 6000 pounds of silver ore upstream when it contained only 300 pounds of silver,If that much. But this is just an opinion of mine. Happy Hunting and good luck,Awesome post and photos.

There is a vein of silver, probably in Dickenson or Buchanan County Va, that has a very high silver content. "Counterfeitin'" Sol Mullins made coins from it and was charged with counterfeiting but the case was dismissed when it was revealed that his coins had a higher silver content than the government issued money. I've held in my hand a coin he made. Swift said it was "rich" and I believe he meant the silver content of the vein.