silver coin covered with chop marks...

[brookside_bob]

Silver coin salvaged from the Nuestra Senora De La Conception, wrecked in 1638 on
Saipan, Marianas Islands.

It was bought from Big Blue Wreck Salvage, Inc.
Mel King and Faye Asano are the 2 names on the busines card.
They are based in Denver.
Their website, [www.artifactexchange.com] has been under construction forever.
They re-sell coins from the Atocha wreck for a bunch of money - a lot more than this coin was bought for – $75.
There was no authenticating paperwork that came with it which makes me think there's something "wrong" with the coin.
If the coin did in fact come from the Conception, I would guess that it would be worth a lot more.

(photo credits: jules-the-junkman...jack of all trades...master of none)

Anyone have any thoughts?

 

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[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: silver coin from 1638 wreck

Duh,i have no idea other than it looks as if someone had been playing with a set of Chinese chop stamps since this has certain amount of duplication of the chops and no orginal identification. But then this is outside of what little expertise that I may claim to have.

Excuses to avoid work I have plenty.

Tropical Tramp

 

[kenb]

Re: silver coin from 1638 wreck

It appears that this coin has been hammered many times, I see nothing to indicate Spanish origin, but I know very little on the subject. I'm supprised Doc or PBK hasn't responded, this is more to there expertise.

kenb

 

[fort boy]

Re: silver coin from 1638 wreck

what does the edge look like?

 

[djui5]

Re: silver coin from 1638 wreck

looks like a test coin they used to make sure the stamps were working before stamping real coins...

either that or it's some kinda crazy treasure map...hahaha

 

[Trez]

Re: silver coin from 1638 wreck

Silver coin salvaged from the Nuestra Senora De La Conception, wrecked in 1638 on
Saipan, Marianas Islands.

It was bought from Big Blue Wreck Salvage, Inc.
Mel King and Faye Asano are the 2 names on the busines card.
They are based in Denver.
Their website, [www.artifactexchange.com] has been under construction forever.
They re-sell coins from the Atocha wreck for a bunch of money - a lot more than this coin was bought for – $75.
There was no authenticating paperwork that came with it which makes me think there's something "wrong" with the coin.
If the coin did in fact come from the Conception, I would guess that it would be worth a lot more.

(photo credits: jules-the-junkman...jack of all trades...master of none)

Anyone have any thoughts?

Bob,

It's not from 1630's.............just my thinking, or lack there of.
It's looks more like a circulated Spanish 4 or 8 reales that spent much time with the Chinese merchants.....much time.
I would guess the coin dates to around Mid 1700's to early to mid 1800's...but definate, not 1630's.
I agree...you should ask Doc or someone else for another opinion, or maybe have a grading expert look at it...maybe send them a picture...well, you can't really tell from a picture, someone once told me...so don't do that...well then maybe take it to a numismatic expert...someone else once said...so
other than that, sorry I couldn't help.............lol



Trez

 

[brookside_bob]

Re: silver coin from 1638 wreck

I spoke to my sister-in-law last night. She bought it at a gem & mineral show here in Kansas City last year. She said one of the 2 guys who represents the company Big Blue Wreck Salvage sold it. Rather than include some sort of statement of authentication as to the provenance of the coin, he gave her a copy of the National Geographic magazine which has the article about the salvage of the Conception.

Yesterday I emailed the BBS company and it came back undeliverable. I phoned them and got a recording. Their web site has been under construction forever. All this leads me to doubt that the coin came from that wreck.

My friend Jules has the coin and will get me some pics of the side of it which I will then post here.

Maybe it was used in stamping class 101??

Are the stamps Asian in origin

 

[packerbacker]

Re: silver coin from 1638 wreck

It's a State quarter, I just can't figure out which one.

 

[brookside_bob]

Re: silver coin from 1638 wreck

from Jules; Coin is approx. 41-42mm in diameter. Rim thickness hovers fairly consistently right around 2mm, and it weighs 23g's.

When looking at the coin in person, the rim suggests somewhat of a "rope" pattern.

 

[Mackaydon]

Re: silver coin from 1638 wreck

Brookside_Bob:

Spanish Pieces of Eight (8 reales in silver--93.1% or 91.7% depending on 'when') weighed about 24.5 grams until 1728, when the weight was increased to just over 27 grams. Your coin measures 'light' but that certainly DOESNT mean it is not a real piece of eight. (All those chop marks could account for damage resulting in lose of weight.)

I'll assume the coin came from a Spanish mint in the New World since the typical source for Spanish coins lost where this coin was said to be lost (Far East seas) would strongly suggest a New World origin.

The Manila galleons carried silver coins from Acapulco. In the year 1638, the Lima mint had been closed for 50 years and wouldn't open again for another 21 years; so that mint is out of the question. The mint at Potosi, Bolivia (Peru, then) was producing 'shield' type cobs. But those cobs, with the rare exception of presentation pieces or those shaped in a heart design, were normally very rough around the rim since the coin was literally cut to the exact weight--yet this coin appears definitely round.

The "Conception" I usually think about sank in 1641, not 1638. In the '41 sinking, most of those coins were from the Mexican mint--also a shield type. So my quick quess is this coin was minted in the late or post-cob era. Another 'clue': If that 'glob' in the middle is a bubble of metal, that might indicate early 1700s (Mexican mint) when bubbles and holes in the planchet did occur from poor workmanship.

Very interesting coin nevertheless: whatever it is.
Don.....

 

[brookside_bob]

Re: silver coin from 1638 wreck

Don,

Thanks for the comments.

Can't think of any good reason why there are so many chop marks on the coin.

 

[Mackaydon]

Re: silver coin from 1638 wreck

Brookside:
Perhaps the abundance of chop marks was used to verify the coin was actually an 8 reales in silver; doubt may have been cast for the 'lightness' in weight. Then, after may 'verifications', the image on the coin became obscure, necessitating even more verifications. BTW, cob coins (cut from the bar) to my knowledge never came from the mint with markings on the rims/edges.
Don.....

 

[Trez]

Re: silver coin from 1638 wreck

Brookside_Bob:

Spanish Pieces of Eight (8 reales in silver--93.1% or 91.7% depending on 'when') weighed about 24.5 grams until 1728, when the weight was increased to just over 27 grams. Your coin measures 'light' but that certainly DOESNT mean it is not a real piece of eight. (All those chop marks could account for damage resulting in lose of weight.)

I'll assume the coin came from a Spanish mint in the New World since the typical source for Spanish coins lost where this coin was said to be lost (Far East seas) would strongly suggest a New World origin.

The Manila galleons carried silver coins from Acapulco. In the year 1638, the Lima mint had been closed for 50 years and wouldn't open again for another 21 years; so that mint is out of the question. The mint at Potosi, Bolivia (Peru, then) was producing 'shield' type cobs. But those cobs, with the rare exception of presentation pieces or those shaped in a heart design, were normally very rough around the rim since the coin was literally cut to the exact weight--yet this coin appears definitely round.

The "Conception" I usually think about sank in 1641, not 1638. In the '41 sinking, most of those coins were from the Mexican mint--also a shield type. So my quick quess is this coin was minted in the late or post-cob era. Another 'clue': If that 'glob' in the middle is a bubble of metal, that might indicate early 1700s (Mexican mint) when bubbles and holes in the planchet did occur from poor workmanship.

Very interesting coin nevertheless: whatever it is.
Don.....

The reason for the bubble...it isn't a bubble or hole at all, it is actually where the coin was counterstruck with a deep punch of another unknown chopmark, which I can't see from the pic. The numerous chops are not uncommon...it is just a very heavily circulated piece from what the picture shows...Each one of the chops had a meaning, some meant luck, good fortune, wealth, health, and also the merchants shop name could be one. Chops were just another way for merchants to advertise or validate the quality of silver or the "merchant" for that and to send a greeting or message as it went from vendor to vendor.
If you don't like all those chops, I'll trade you one without..........
Here is a link to a website that has some good info on them...

http://www.sycee-on-line.com/Foreign_silver_coins.htm
Trez

 

[brookside_bob]

Re: silver coin from 1638 wreck

Trez,

Thanks for the link....very informative site.

Lol...Thanks but no thanks for the offer...not interested in selling or trading the coin.

 

[Trez]

Re: silver coin from 1638 wreck

Trez,

Thanks for the link....very informative site.

Lol...Thanks but no thanks for the offer...not interested in selling or trading the coin.

anytime

I use to have a list of hundreds of Chopmark ID's....
I will see if I can find it......then send it to you.
You will find your chops on there, and there meaning...if interested
Also, there is a book authored by F M Rose. If you like chops, this is a very good book to have...
Getting harder to find...

 

[brookside_bob]

Re: silver coin from 1638 wreck

Yes, I am very interested...

Would you like some more photos of the coin...

 

[Trez]

Re: silver coin from 1638 wreck

Yes, I am very interested...

Would you like some more photos of the coin...

If I get you the info...you must look it up yourself OK. LOL
Looking at all those characters, lines...slanted, 90 degrees, 45's, makes my eyes water.........
It's all Chinese to me anyways.......lol


Here the link for your Chopmark ID's...............HAVE FUN.....lol
http://www.chopmarks.com/catalogo/catalogo.htm

 

[brookside_bob]

Re: silver coin from 1638 wreck

(symbol of action)...........

I'm on it!!!!!