Shotshell experts needed

[Alan Payne]

I found this shotshell today. It doesn’t have any head stamp and it seems to have a large primer for its size. Actually primer is missing, which makes me think it was a reloaded. I can’t seem to find a reference to the measurements I made with my caliper. The best guess from measuring is it is a 24 gauge shotshell. It is out of round so exact measurements are out of reach. I did get an average of .668 on the head of the shell and .572 at the base of the shell. It is 1 and 7/8 inches long. All thoughts are welcomed and appreciated.Could this be a Rifle cartridge?

 

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[Duckshot]

Just a novice here, but I was studying up on vintage shot shells a bit ago.

Sombody, someplace, at some point in time within the last month had a box of Winchester 24ga. shells in metal alloy hulls for sale. I cannot locate the listing, must have sold? I'm quite certain it was either Winchester or possibly Western because it was a yellow box with an "X".

I recall reading that the hulls were a zinc alloy.

i think that's what you found, maybe. The primer pocket that looks to accept a rimmed primer indicates it is most likely a shotshell and not a rifle cartridge.

 

[ToddsPoint]

Back in the late 1800's they made some odd shotgun stuff. All brass shells at first. Odd gauges like 24 ga. and 14 ga. I have an old 1890's double barrel that is chambered for an obsolete caliber called ".44 shot". Slightly bigger than a .410, but not a .410. Gary

 

[Duckshot]

Well dangnabitall.

My memory must be failing. Must have been from all that cheap rot-gut schnapps mom used to feed me, not to mention too much televis...

What were we talking about...

Oh, right. It was 14ga. zinc alloy hulls that I saw, not 24ga. No wonder I couldn't search it up again!

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...c-to-near-mint-condition.cfm?gun_id=101092977

But I'd wager they made these in 24ga. as well. And that's from Western, not Winchester. It's listed wrong.

 

[A2coins]

Great info and ID

 

[fyrffytr1]

I don't know that I have ever seen a shotgun shell less than 2"s long. I think it is a rifle cartridge.

 

[Retired Sarge]

Wonder if it could be a .577 Snider round. I thought of that because my Pattern 1853 Enfield, made in 1863 and converted in Oct 1866, uses a similar shell, see below link. So it's a muzzle loader that has been factory converted to a breech loader, or a Snider-Enfield Mk II** conversion.

http://www.oldammo.com/january07.htm

To make modern shells for it we use brass (Or plastic) 24 gauge shotgun shells with about 1/2 inch trimmed from them.

The pictures of my rifle below, show what the rifle looks like after it was converted to a breech loader.

 

[Alan Payne]

Thanks mike for the wonderful suggestion. What are the other measurements of the Snider cartridge. I don’t know what it is, but I do no it’s not modern and it’s not some zinc alloy metal. I do believe it is Brass, not copper.

 

[Alan Payne]

I just looked up measurements of .577 Snider and this cartridge isn’t that. It is smaller.http://https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.577_Snider. Again Rim is .668 and base is .572 1 and 7/8 inches long. Could it be a pistol cartridge?

 

[Retired Sarge]

Heres two dimension charts for you. Shell is about 1.9 inches without the round.

 

[Alan Payne]

Mike thanks again, I think I might have found a winner. I think it is an early 50-70-450 cartridge for a Model 1866 Springfield. Wiki said the .50-70 Government cartridge was modeled after the joslyn cartridge. Wiki provided no info on the Joslyn. This is the closest measurements I can find. I guess it is possible for it to be a Joslyn cartridge, but without knowing the measurements of that cartridge I can’t say. I also looked up a 58 cal Centerfire and it looks very similar in construction to that round, but I believe smaller but only slightly. I thank everyone for contributing their knowledge and time on this cartridge. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.50-70_Government