setting up a salvage boat, what is needed

[grizzly bare]

Okay, so let's say that one wanted to set up a salvage boat and do it right. What size boat is needed for Florida/Caribbean type salvage? What equipment would be necessary or wanted? What if we wanted to check out the Lutine? Maybe someday we would like to take the boat to Greece to dive the Aegean, Meriterranean?
Not talking about something miles deep here (NO TITANIC TRIPS!)
I'm a 'landlubber' who knows next to nothing, but I know where the right people to ask are...right here on TNet. Come on folks, dream a little.

grizzly bare

 

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[cptbil]

G. B. "
Do you want a complete list ?
Or!
Do you want a "First Generation" Boat?
That you...
Can use, close to shore (within 5-10 miles)..
Then, when you do, "Hit IT",? ? ? you'll have some loot upon which you can then build
A Real Heavy Duty Rig !
I'm heading back to Texas myself..I have some Urgent Business that I HAVE to take care of!
So!
I have decided to stay at home, I live on the Gulf Coast, and, do the above and see what I can find
out there myself!
Cptbil & Bugs
PS:
Make sure that you have a save and secure way to dispose of your finds!

 

[seagreen12]

GB:
Get a copy of Boats and Harbors (www.boatsandharbors.com) they have great deals on commercial vessels,
DRMOd Navy vessels and ships, MVs, FVs including crewboats. Great selection of misc seagoing equipment.

My dream vessel is a 75-100 foot LCM with two LP air compressors for surface air diving, rigged to a volume tank with a 2 roll up umbilical reels. HP comp for SCUBA fills, a chamber, a HP compressor (for air lift) 2 diesel primes, 2 diesel gens. The dive locker aft with band masks, hard hats, a hot water set up, different rubber selection and places to wash and stow the kit.

Machine shop and burning/welding rigs 3 good winches, 2 aft port and starboard, 1 forward. 2 knuckle cranes to lift the 2-25' work boats
both port and starboard.

A work shop, a good galley, decent crew berthing, an ops room, a rec room..
The only thing is they ride pretty poorly in any sea but they have shallow draft.
The LCM can be fitted out with sea containers turned into work space or additional bunks.

And then there is all the cool remote sensing kit wow could go on and on....

 

[JT]

You may run into problems doing any heavy duty diving/searching in the Med or Aegean, due to restrictive laws. I've done some diving off of Italy, and it is great diving. I believe, though, that certain areas are prohibited from diving or collection of artifacts/antiquities.

If you could make some connections with the right people over there, I'm sure it may help eliminate some red tape. But, be sure you have your ducks in a row. The jails over there aren't pleasant places.

 

[cptbil]

As you can see, from the "replies", G.B. :
You needed to suggest a price range for your vessel !
Also, Cruising range... actual size..etc.!
But!
Whatever you decide on..
Make sure that you have a wide beam, study, stable WORK Boat!
An old, but in good shape coastal shrimp boat!
Length and other rigging/accommodations are going to depend on the size of your "pocket BooK"!
SO!
What are your requirements,
IE: For Coastal work, a sea going vessel, large professional salvage ship?
OR!
A! I hope that I'll find a treasure TYPE!
Remember..?
One of the most famous TH'ers in the World!, started out with a small leaky old diesel powered barge
That! Belched? ? more diesel smoke and fumes than anything!
BUT!
HE!
Found!? HIS TREASURE !
Me! Mine ?
? ? ?I'm going to have to go with the, "DIY" "I hope that I find"? kind!? ?

 

[Cablava]

I have owned and operated various salvage boats, barges and ships over the years, the last ship was 265 ft long with global capability, All very nice, but unless you have deep pockets or continuous work then when you need big "rent it' once the engine stops and the screw stops turning a large vessel will eat you alive. I have an acquaintance who had a 200 salvage ship sitting in port for three years with no work, eventually the Port costs, wages and maintainance cost lost him the ship.

Small boats are not cheap either however much easier to live with.

Think carefully about your requirement.

Cheers

 

[grizzly bare]

Not a rich man, but was thinking in the 1.5 to 2 million range. 75+ feet. other than that I wanted help from the folks here because I would like to try some serious salvage. Wasn't joking about the Lutine. Would love to take 3-6 months and give that a shot.
When I said Med/Agean, I was dreaming. My primary area would be US coastline (out to 20 miles) and Caribbean.
grizzly

 

[cptbil]

You're not Rich !
But!
You can afford a 1.5 - 2.0 million $ Ship!
Boy! I MUST be in the Wrong Income Bracket!
Remembering, that a ship that size will have many $, many $ other expenses!

I have owned boats ..
AND! There's an Old Saying..
"A boat is a hole that you keep pouring money into! "
SO! If'n you're NOT! Rich...
You had better be!
SAY!
Need an experienced "Dive Master" ?

 

[seagreen12]

Whats the other saying about boats?
The happiest days for a boat owner the day he buys it and the day he sells it!
Having said that man I miss living on my boat!

 

[Cablava]

With a salvage boat there is no such thing as a the perfect boat, much depends on the job and location, whether you are working of a ballast pile, or cutting into a old steel ship etc.
the need to moor a large boat or small ship over the worksite (three or 4 point moor) without damaging the reef or endangering the salvage boat itself.
What the bottom is composed of. (hard or soft etc) the equipment is different.
The weight of the objects recovered or moved out of the way etc.
Depth of water.
Amount of crew required to run the boat and job.
Accommodation and food required etc
Duration of each trip

Each site has its own problems with tide current and winds, each boat reacts differently in these circumstances.

Where do you keep the boat when not working.

Much of the equipment can be rented and is transportable from one boat to another.
Side scan
Magnetometers
DGPS
ROV
Gyro compass
Diving gear
Chamber if necessary preferably with an IUC compatible flange 600mm ?
Pumps
Water jets
Cutting rigs
Compressors
etc

So the boat requires other fixed items and be stable.
The biggest thing is really space, salvage boats get really crowded out with gear.
How many people can be accommodated and fed.
Cranes and winches, capstains
Possibly a blower
Some even have grabs (check out Risdon Beazley)

Any way I can go for hours about this subject, the point I am making nothing is perfect, so think carefully maybe 2 boats of different size could be needed or maybe just charter to suit the jobs.

Please feel free to email me if you require any help.

Regards

Mike

 

[ceolacanth]

Cablava you got it in a nutshell"

If you need BIG then bareboat lease it, Sometimes we get caught up in the Dream vessel and unless those Big pay off jobs keep Rollin you end up Pouring money into something thats not making the returns. As Cablava mentions Risdon and Beazley they had it real good for many years with an endless supply of cargo recoveries to tackle. (2nd world war) But when that dried up so did they sadly selling off vessels and assets one by one.
But if Grizzly just wants a home and a good solid work platform to cruise the Caribean and coastal USA With the capital outlay he is willing to spend he could get a nice sound newer model Trawler type motor cruiser (steel). This would allow a comfortable place to live and work, fit into reasonably shallow draft areas . keeping the size under 90ft will allow access into most smaller marinas. Single screw is more economical and lack of maneuverability can be offset with bow and stern thrusters (nearly all trawlers of this caliber come standard with at least Bow)and most have an alternate means of a" come home" system
Fuel capacity needs to be considerable not so much for range than allowing to fuel up at lower cost ports.
A word of caution on ex oil field or Military vessels they are not designed with fuel consumption in mind.
A point for Seagreen is take caution side lifting on LC M's they tend to prefer lifting from a more central location.With a 25 ft workboat I dont think the stability of a 75 LCM would tolerate that kind of lift a 100 ft maybe all depending how solidly constructed and heavy the workboat was (I assume they would be Aluminium or Steel)

All that said 3 boats one small, 1 med, and one large works just Greeeaaaaat. Almost like one of those Japanese dolls where all the pieces fit into each other.
I also have to stop here or I will go on all night

"the difference between a dream boat and reality is practicality"

 

[cptbil]

"The largest expedition begins with the smallest foot foreward"
"The largest vessel afloat, can trace it's beginnings to a small hollowed out log"
Sure!
If, You are a Millionaire, get a 70-80-90'er or larger..
But!
For the average person
AND!
Remember, most of the Treasure lies within sight of the Beach!
OR!
Even ON the Beach!
You gotta take the "first", "small" step (small ship/boat)!

 

[CaribbeanDiver]

Am I the only one that thinks, "go out and get some experience and then you will know what YOU need". Not only is everyone different but if you don't even know what you need maybe you better wait until you do...

Hence, a 19' foot center console and a metal detector is all you need... To start. Oh, and scuba equipment helps.

Just my 2 cents.



Rich

 

[rgecy]

The answer can go several ways.? It just depends on what type of salvage you are doing.? Near shore, offshore, number of divers, depth of water, overburden over wreck, etc!? I think the factors can speak for themselves.

But, what I consider a good all around boat would be a used 35-40' twin diesel Sportfisher (Hatteras, etc) with twin blowers.? It has a wide beam and good cabin space.? You can work sites like the 1715 fleet as well as further sites ofshore and still stay on site for a fair amount of time.? Overall, Good range, power, and afordability!

Transportation to the Mediterranean could still be worked out.

As for the extras; hooka, sidescan, magnetometer, compressors, diving gear, metal detectors, etc.? Again, some items depend on what your working with!

Robert in SC

 

[wreckdiver1715]

Grizzly, I have to basically agree with all the above posts, and that?s hardly scratching the surface of this type of an endeavor. If one was looking for information on how to set up a treasure hunting boat. One needs to do some research, and lots of it, as there are more variables than we have time for this morning.
The first place that I would recommend looking would be to the experts in the field, those that have searched for and found underwater treasure. ?Salvaging Spanish Sunken Treasure? by Bob. ?Frogfoot? Weller. He provides the basics, from a small 11-foot Zodiac for a close to shore type hunt, to a 110 foot vessel capable of reaching foreign ports. This is a very good place for a newcomer to start getting a feel for what is ahead of them in the search for sunken treasure. Additionally, it will most likely have you asking even more questions. Like, ?can I find a good deal for purchasing a boat damaged by this years hurricanes?, or even more importantly ?What is my target?.
For me it was a 1977, 33foot Chris Craft Corinthian named "Enterprise", and the one of the missing Galleons of the 1715 fleet.



Q

 

[grizzly bare]

Thanks to everyone who has replied. Now let me be a LITTLE more specific.

There are eight sites I have researched that should have some "treasure" aboard. All are off the coast of North America and all but one are shallow (ten to 50 feet) and the other is around the 90 foot depth.These are reasonably well documented sites, and while most have had some recovery done, none has been "professionally" picked. (No, I don't think I can do it professionally either)
When I mentioned the Lutine, I wasn't joking. I know that her treasure lies under 40 to 50 feet of sand, but this isn't that hard to work. The problem as I see it is locating the gold and not hunting where the ballast is/was. What reads through 50 feet of sand? That's where I need help. Deciding what equipment is essential, what is nice to have, what is overkill, and what is totally unnecessary.
It sounds as if I need to short-term lease a boat and equipment next summer (late Spring) and 'depend on the kindness of strangers' to get started.
Now it sounds like you have saved me from making a 1.5 million dollar mistake. Party's on me.

grizzly bare

 

[Cablava]

Grizzly, Cornelius

La Lutine is not an easy target, if it was there would be a long list of corporations trying, perhaps even Lloyd's. Many have already tried and failed.

However it does pose some very interesting problems to solve in order to get at the goodies (outside of the Governments).

The sad part is the water conditions there would not make it fun at all, cold and dark. Shifting sand and unpredictable weather conditions.

I could never work out the fun in the Mary Rose project either, the history was great but the diving was not fun, that said a great piece of history, but not fun. But at least with the La Lutine there would be a great payday if recovered.

I am sure Cornelius knows plenty about her though. But if you ever want to go to the middle of the Indian Ocean I have a target there but even though it has clear warm water, the Easterly swell has broken over the wreck every day for almost 200 years, I wonder if there is anything left to find, ( oh the weather side where the lower part of the wreck should sit falls off into the abyss) but finding out everything I know of this vessel has been fantastic. The upper part of the wreck was carried about 100 yds on to ?the reef, so some goodies should still be there.

Anyway 1.5 million bucks does not go to far these days so be careful with it, find something with small equipment then look at what you have to spend. And by the way all the salvage attempts I have seen that have failed have been for two three reasons.

1. Bad research.
2. No finance
3. The equipment was too small

Regards

Mike

 

[cptbild]

Carb. Diver:
Boy!
You must be "Rich" !
I could only afford an I/O, an 18'er !
I didn't even have a "Mag" or an UW Detector to drag behind!!
But!
I do have an UW Camera that I use!
AND!
YES!
I certainly agree with you!
You have to go out and see what is needed!

 

[grizzly bare]

Which is exactly why I originally asked the experienced people on here for help. Have seriously researched sites in Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, Boston Harbor, Cape Charles, and expect to do more physical research in the not-too-distant future. I have approximate coordinates and decent oral and written tradition to help and have reams of first hand accounts and even some chapters from a variety of books.
Now I need to find one of those "starving" salvage boat owner/operators who will lease me his services for 6 months.
I realize that LOTS of side-scan and magnetometer work is still to be done. The old 'sit and listen or review miles of sonar readings' doesn't bother me at all.
And Cornelius, we probably have similar information about the Lutine. In one of your earlier posts on another thread, you gave cogent, intelligent reasons why the original salvors didn't find the gold which is probably not that far from the resting spot of the ship. (Not feet, possibility of just "The other side") But the Lutine is actually the last vessel on my list. US watres hold enough treasure and mystery to keep me satisfied and busy for several years.
Interestingly enough. my "first" boat isn't even in the water, but the cargo and what's left of the ship is on shore and within a 1/2 mile area off North Carolina's coast (Not in refuge or state park area) Will be there with metal detectors, deep seekers, and maybe even a GPR (I know that sand screws up the readings for most units, but there are a couple of third generation units that can be selectively set to avoid MOST of this problem)

grizzly bare

 

[grizzly bare]

Cornelius,
each of us has a "comfort zone" mine allows me to work in waters around US coastline. I have enough experience and friends who owe me favors that I can get permission to work in a lot of places. On the other hand, I have few friends outside of US that I can call upon. I don't know the language, I don't know the water, and I don't know how to work the red tape.
These are my reasons for working US waters and not most other places. Additionally, on a personal level, I have spent quite a bit of time and energy checking on my "spots" of interest. I would have to start over at step one for other ships.
In another post, I said that La Lutine would be the last choice of the ships I have already researched. The reasons above are why.
On the other hand, thanks for the idea, it JUSTMIGHT be possible.

grizzly bare
To dream the impossible dream...