✅ SOLVED Scabbard Tip

[theblackprince]

I found this last Friday in Central Massachusetts at a spot where there was once a house that was built around 1802-1803. I know it's a scabbard tip made of brass but I'm wondering if there's any way to date it? It's 2 1/4 inches long and is just over an inch at its widest point.

 

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[kuger]

Nope,its off of the Plume on a helmet
http://combathelmets.blogspot.com/2007/02/model-1881-us-cavalry-helmet.html

I am trying to find the exact one,but thats what it is

 

[d2]

That is sweet!!!d2

 

[CoilyGirl]

That is sweet!!!d2

Agreeing!

 

[theblackprince]

This is just the right size and shape to be a scabbard tip. Please, what makes you think it's from a helmet plume?

 

[kuger]

just a gut feeling from the strong similarities to Plumes,although I know I have seen one with the oak leaf pattern like yours I can not find an example.At 2 1/4 it may be too small for a plume,but the over sized ball is not practical or like any I have seen on a scabbard?What does the bottom of the "ball",look like?is there a hole?I am imagining not,which would add one more strike against it being a plume base

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

object looks round to me...beautiful find...
most swords in the new world were flat...as were the scabbard furniture.
if it is not a plume holder...my next favorite guess is the tip off a bolo tie. but it appears to be a bit large at the open end for a tie fitting.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Theblackprince wrote:
> Please, what makes you think it's from a helmet plume?

Kuger and I have seem helmet plume-holders which look extremely similar to your find.

Kuger, in the side-view photos a flat area is visible on the bottom of the ball... which indicates a mounting-hole is there. I agree with you, it is a helmet plume-holder. I've seen one exactly like it somewhere, but I cannot recall exactly where.

Meanwhile, here are some links for Theblackprince which show various helmet-plume holders. Look at the bottom of the plume on the helmet.

Dress Helmet

1880's U s Artillery Enlisted Man's Dress Helmet with Red Horse Hair Plume | eBay

Another variety (be sure to look at the closeup photo of the plume's base):
Original Cavalry Dress Helmet 2nd Co Governor's Horse Guard Connecticut 1890 | eBay

More:
Model 1881 U s Army Signal Corps Dress Helmet and Cords | eBay

 

[kuger]

Theblackprince wrote:
> Please, what makes you think it's from a helmet plume?

Kuger and I have seem helmet plume-holders which look extremely similar to your find.

Kuger, in the side-view photos a flat area is visible on the bottom of the ball... which indicates a mounting-hole is there. I agree with you, it is a helmet plume-holder. I've seen one exactly like it somewhere, but I cannot recall exactly where.

Meanwhile, here are some links for Theblackprince which show various helmet-plume holders. Look at the bottom of the plume on the helmet.

Dress Helmet

1880's U s Artillery Enlisted Man's Dress Helmet with Red Horse Hair Plume | eBay

Another variety (be sure to look at the closeup photo of the plume's base):
Original Cavalry Dress Helmet 2nd Co Governor's Horse Guard Connecticut 1890 | eBay

More:
Model 1881 U s Army Signal Corps Dress Helmet and Cords | eBay

Thank you my friend,its been eating me up that I can not find an example!!

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

You're welcome.

Two clues that it isn't a scabbard-tip:
1- Lack of punch-holes for attaching to the end of the leather scabbard.
2- Scabbard-tips get a lot of "rough treatment"... so they are made of fairly thick sheetbrass. On Theblackprince's find, the photos show the "fronds" are made of very-thin stamped sheetbrass.

 

[CC Hunter]

Kuger and TheCannoballGuy are indeed correct that this item is a plume holder from military headgear.

My thoughts are though, that this is in fact an earlier "Shako" hat plume holder, rather than from a military helmet of the style seen in the later 19th Century.

I've seen similar style hat plume holders recovered from Florida sites dating to the Second Seminole War period (1835-1842).

CC Hunter

 

[CC Hunter]

Here are a few similar examples:

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/t...-including-1830-s-shako-hat-plume-holder.html

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/today-s-finds/321864-1830-s-shako-hat-plume-holder.html

Brass shako (plume holder) from a Second Seminole Indian War-period (1835-42) infantry dress hat.

 

[theblackprince]

Looks like you guys are right and I was wrong. I really thought it was a scabbard tip because of the size and shape. I was mistaken about the shape, of course, because the thing has been compressed into a flatter than normal shape. And, yes, there is a hole at the end of the ball and that really puzzled me. I figured that was just the way it was made. The possibility of a plume holder never crossed my mind. I thank you all for your valuable information. If anyone manages to find an exact match, I'd love to hear about it.

theblackprince