santa margarita and the atocha ?

[hmmm]

this is confusing, mel fisher says it sank with the atocha in the Atlantic,
http://www.melfisher.org/1622.htm

these guys claim it sank in the pacific.
http://iotapartners.com/the_santa_margarita.html

check out the map, it shows the manila trade fleet goes right past vancover island, makes you think. if they went past here , why not stop for supplies.
http://iotapartners.com/2003_galleonroutemap.html

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Agony and Death on a Gold Rush Steamer: The Disastrous Sinking of the Side-Wheeler Yankee Blade - Grab it through Amazon!

[wwwtimmcp]

Re: santa margarita and the atocha , conspericy

many ships shared the same name. there were no less than 4 edmund fitzgeralds on the great lakes alone.

 

[rgecy]

Re: santa margarita and the atocha , conspericy

I don't think there is any disputing that the Margarita and Atocha sank within site of each other. This guy does not claim that the Santa Margarita he speaks of is the same ship Mel says he found.

Many ships had the same names over the years. I know of no less than 5 ships with name Concepcion (there is even one mentioned in the article). And I am sure there were many more.

 

[hmmm]

compare the santa margarita drawings on the two webs, they are the same ship.

 

[rgecy]

Even if the drawings are the same it does not mean that the ships were the same. Or that there were not two ships built that were name Santa Margarita.

I think you need to spend some time and read some of the books on the subject and the historical background. The records clearly indicate the Margarita from 1622 sank within site of the Atocha.

The ship mentioned in the article sank in 1601 and was part of the Manilla Galleons. Isn't it more likely that there were two ships named the Santa Margarita.

Very notable Researchers and Archaeologist have done too much work on the Margarita shipwreck for it to be a hoax!

 

[hmmm]

I know the story of the 1622 sinking of the atocha. I read where 1 of the ships was new but how old would the other one be. If the santa margarita was built befor 1600, it was around during the time of drake. A ship like that could sit as a derlict ship for a long time, maybe lost in the pacific in some tiny pacific harbour. used as a hide out for pirates. then in the 1620's the spanish found it again, fixed it up and tried to sail it back with the armada of 1622 only to sink for good where mel found it..

 

[hmmm]

Cornelius ,my friend lives on a boat that was built in the 20's.
Sailing across the pacific on the 40 degrees line gets you very close to the island, the island is on the 48 line. why not stop for supplies for the voyage south. as cash mentioned , this stuff is on lots of beaches around tofino.

 

[mad4wrecks]

Next you need to do some research on the "life expectancy" of a wooden sailing ship from that period. Even with the hull sheethed in lead, the ships didn't last very long, esp. in tropical waters. It's not like they dry docked them during the winters.

 

[makahaman]

Hi I was in Rota when they found the ship the Margarita and was wondering if they found all of the gold and precious jems they said was on that ship?? I haven't seen any of the items that were supposedly lost when the ship went down. Any web site where I can see what they found on that shipwreck? They said that there was $20 million in gold on that shipwreck so where is it? Thanks if someone can respond to this question. Aloha

 

[hmmm]

MAKAHAMAN hello
This whole thing is confusing,  there is a story about a ship , Santa margarita that sank in 1622 with the atocha. is the ship you talk about,  a diffrent santa margarita? or are there two claims on the same ship.
http://iotapartners.com/iota_background.html

 

[rgecy]

Hi I was in Rota when they found the ship the Margarita and was wondering if they found all of the gold and precious jems they said was on that ship?? I haven't seen any of the items that were supposedly lost when the ship went down. Any web site where I can see what they found on that shipwreck? They said that there was $20 million in gold on that shipwreck so where is it? Thanks if someone can respond to this question. Aloha

Are you asking about Mel Fisher's Santa Margarita or the one hmmmm is talking about?

www.melfisher.com

 

[stevemc]

It looks like he is talking about Rota in the Mariannas islands. That website spoke of the Santa Margarita wreck. Yes, there were a lot of different ships with the same names over several hundred years.

 

[makahaman]

Hi guys I am talking about the one that was found on Rota in the Mariannas. What have they found on that wreck? Doesn't look like much!! I thought they said that this wreck had millions in gold and precious jems but for some reason they haven't shown all that gold that they were talking about. Is there any other website that shows what they found? Thanks

 

[ivan salis]

the spanish often named their vessels over and over with the same names -- this was the "religious name factor"-- the ship owners for divine protection often used the name of their "patron saint" names on their vessels --it often caused more than one lost vessel to have the same name --although they sank in differant places and in differant years --- some names were horribly common -- archive researchers know this all too well --- because of this the vessels often carried more than one name often two or even three was common -- first the "religious name" --- a second "offical" name often quite long and cumbersome --- and even a third name -- or "nick name" --- in the 1715 fleet is a prime exsample of just this "la galera" after its type or class (the galley)---" Olandesa" -- or (dutch) after the former owners from whom it was taken -- so its no great surprize that there are more than one "what ever" name you want to pick lost at differant spots and differant years.

the drawing of the vessels would be the same also as most naos were built along the same lines (galleons were just "beefed" up naos with more guns and men really)-- again no great surprize the design changed very little for a long time

the wrecks that occured in the pacific and atlantic oceans were from totally differant fleets -- --the manila fleets off loaded their goods on the west coast side by panama and the goods were transported across land to atlantic side and loaded on the atlantic fleet vessels and then shipped to spain --they did not come around the cape of south america -- it was too way to dangerous -- wreckage that occurs along the upper west coast of america coastline came from storm battered pacific fleet vessels that lost their steering ability in the storms in the pacific and were blown northward and wrecked -- thus the wreckage found there (tofino area) is from the manila fleets and easily explained. the manila galleons were as normally richly loaded and are well worth the finding.

 

[hmmm]

if my theory is right about a Spanish mine near tofino, then it would make sense the Manila fleet would come here on purpose. as for the Santa margarita in rota, they found it in 1996. this is the year of the bre x scandal so no scandal  would suprise me. If bre x found the spanish mines then they would have found the spanish treasure as well. after all i have found it does not suprisise me all i get is iota.