Run In With City "Official" At Rochester, NY Beach

[srcdco]

Run In With City "Official" At Rochester, NY Beach

I have been pondering whether to post this or not and I finally decided to go ahead. I'm sure some of you will say I was in the wrong and some will say that the city person was in the wrong. Either way, here goes my story.

This was on July 6. I decided to go to one of the Rochester, NY beaches, owned by the city. I haven't been to this beach in years. I got up early and went to get there before it opened to stay out of the way of bathers. I was in the water for about 30 minutes when a person came down to the beach and started yelling at me about not reading signs, breaking the law, etc. I could tell he was pissed, and that there was no way that I was going to be able to continue in the water, so I pulled my headphones off and said "I'm sorry I couldn't hear you". Then he really went into a rant about no one being allowed in the water when the beach is "closed" and that he's tired of telling people to get out, especially with metal detectors. I came over to him and mentioned that it was obvious that someone had beaten me to it (there were spots where holes had been dug recently and I only found a quarter - plus $10 in paper money). His response was that I was the third person in the last two days that he'd kicked out and that he wasn't going to put up with it anymore. I was the last person that he was going to tell, from now on he's just going to call the police and have them arrest people for trespassing on city property. He then said that our digging in the water stirred up the bottom and when he takes his water samples to determine if the water is safe that it causes the bacteria readings to be high and they have to close the beach. I don't believe a word of that. As we were walking back to the car, he commented about "all of that for 75 or 80 cents in change", to which I replied (yes to get him again) that the change is not what we're looking for, it's jewelry. He really got mad then and "informed" me that according to both the city ordinance and state law (I haven't verified either of these) that valuable, personal property must be turned in so that it can be returned to its owner and that it's illegal for me (us) to keep it. He did say that the sand area is ok to detect, but that the water is off-limits. I did get the guy's name from his badge that he was wearing. I have thought of contacting the city to complain about how rude he was, but I haven't decided on that yet.

At that, I left. I do know that when I checked many years ago, New York does have a law on the books that requires someone that finds valuable, personal items to "go to reasonable expense to return the item to its rightful owner". In my case "reasonable expense" is 0. I'm happy to attempt to find something for someone if they ask me, and I have many times and I never ask for anything in return. But, I'm not spending anything to try to find the owner of anything I find when no one's around.

Scott

 

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[wildman4910]

Re: Run In With City "Official" At Rochester, NY Beach

that he's tired of telling people to get out, especially with metal detectors.
He then said that our digging in the water stirred up the bottom and when he takes his water samples to determine if the water is safe that it causes the bacteria readings to be high and they have to close the beach. I don't believe a word of that.

"Came down to the beach and started yelling at me about not reading signs"
Was there a sign stating such? If not he can go pound sand.

Sorry but the "bacteria reading" is a load, that's probably his favorite beach to detect and he doesn't want any competition.

What this fool needs more than anything is to get fired, he does not need to be employed in any "city" position.

If it was me I'd toss some complaints to his boss, just because he was such turd.

 

[srcdco]

Re: Run In With City "Official" At Rochester, NY Beach

There is a sign that says "Swimming only allowed between 11am and 7pm". He tried to tell me that "if you are in the water, you are swimming. I've heard it all before so don't try to argue with me.".

Scott

 

[Buried Crap NJ]

Re: Run In With City "Official" At Rochester, NY Beach

Well I am not sure about City owned part of the story. I live here in NJ and we have similar problems with private beaches mixed between Privately owned Public beaches.The deal here as the lost rules go. If the item is lost on land you are required to post the item and hold for 30 days to be claimed. If lost in the water its concider ed abandoned!( no brain er where I find items) Now the rules as to being in the water (tricky) here in NJ the 127.3 miles of beach is open to all for free, here it comes! You have to access the beach from a approved free access point, that does not include a closed beach with no ticket taker, That's trespassing! Once you get to the beach you MUST stay below the High tide mark. I paid ed for a beach badge at two beaches and get stopped walking along the water of private Beach's by life guards all the time. I tell the call the police and keep moving along.Now the water and high tide mark is owned and run by the Army corps of the USA.,That's the reason they can't work below the high tide mark when replenishing the beaches without permits. Now I agree with all that will say there are people all over the beach walking and playing after hours, but we are the ones singled out. same goes for schools, I was told I was trespassing the school is closed. I point to kids on the swings and he shakes his head with no responce! Another note here is when in rivers as long as you get to the point of detecting legally you good to go but must stay 15 ft from any structure or moored boats, this includes there beach as well to the high water mark.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Re: Run In With City "Official" At Rochester, NY Beach

If the beach is marked with certain hours, then you were breaking the law by being there outside the hours posted, Just being in the water after hours is all it takes..... Someone who can't swim at all is still violating the law if they are in water that says no swimming..........As far as the finds, I would have told him I do make an effort to return items I find and left it at that.....

As far as messing up the readings maybe if there were a thousand people there digging, otherwise no more than people playing in the water or normal everyday surf.....

 

[captaindoug]

Re: Run In With City "Official" At Rochester, NY Beach

I would immediately contact the city managers office and complain about this employees attitude. It is high time that these people learn that they work for the taxpayers and not the city. This goes all the
way up to the mayor. You sir need to contact your city council member and request a meeting. Remember that Honey will catch the most flies but I would want to know what the law reads and what their reasoning is. You might also explain to them that 99% of all detectorists will remove items such as can slaw, fish hooks etc which could actually be a liability to the city. And a beach that does not open untill 11AM. How is that serving the PEOPLE?

 

[herb n surf]

Re: Run In With City "Official" At Rochester, NY Beach

The government (state , feds, city , county) is not your friend . It only wants your money and then uses it against you to get more money from you.That's my two cents worth.

 

[worldtalker]

Re: Run In With City "Official" At Rochester, NY Beach

The government (state , feds, city , county) is not your friend . It only wants your money and then uses it against you to get more money from you.That's my two cents worth.

Two cents well spent brother!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[tincansam]

Re: Run In With City "Official" At Rochester, NY Beach

The government (state , feds, city , county) is not your friend . It only wants your money and then uses it against you to get more money from you.That's my two cents worth.

IT'S A CONSPIRCY MAN !!! ,,, JUST WRONG YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO JUMP IN THE WATER AT ANYTIME OF DAY, I CAN UNDERSTAND A STATE PARK BUT A BEACH.............PLEASE

 

[DrJoePrime]

Re: Run In With City "Official" At Rochester, NY Beach

The Government?

Wow people. Do you forget that "WE" are the government?

Every state in the union has a law on the books about lost items (of a certain value) belonging to the loser...NOT the finder. We the finders must (legally) establish ownership through a failed attempt to locate the loser.

I'm embarrassed.

Joe

 

[George (MN)]

Re: Run In With City "Official" At Rochester, NY Beach

I'll try guessing the why of this situation. I assume during the legal swimming hours they have lifeguards on duty. And a beach security guard present during off hours sounds like they may be very afraid of lawsuits if anyone drowns or is struck by lightning, or otherwise hurt in the water.

Are you welcome to use the lake for detecting while swimmers are present? If so, are there any cool or rainy days it's not crowded? If not allowed when swimmers present, either, that seems unfair to get no detecting time in water.

Could you go Spring or Fall, or is the beach closed 24 hours (like closed gate or chain at entrance) when too cold for swimming? Or is it then too cold for you?

If it is a liability issue, I wonder if you could go to the city & sign something in-dicating you (or your next of kin) wouldn't sue if something bad happened to you? But maybe they don't want to do exceptions or issue permits, for reasons only they could know.

I have no knowledge of the bacteria thing. Hope something works out for you. Best wishes, George (MN)

 

[srcdco]

Re: Run In With City "Official" At Rochester, NY Beach

The Government?

Wow people. Do you forget that "WE" are the government?

Every state in the union has a law on the books about lost items (of a certain value) belonging to the loser...NOT the finder. We the finders must (legally) establish ownership through a failed attempt to locate the loser.

I'm embarrassed.

Joe

I'm assuming that you are embarrassed because I refuse to put any of my money on the line to find the owner of the lost items. That's fine, but I used to go out of my way to attempt to find the owners of lost items and many times I was accused of trying to scam people and once I was accused of stealing the item in the first place. So, no more. If I find it, it's mine (unless I'm specifically looking for it for someone).

Scott

 

[srcdco]

Re: Run In With City "Official" At Rochester, NY Beach

I'll try guessing the why of this situation. I assume during the legal swimming hours they have lifeguards on duty. And a beach security guard present during off hours sounds like they may be very afraid of lawsuits if anyone drowns or is struck by lightning, or otherwise hurt in the water.

Are you welcome to use the lake for detecting while swimmers are present? If so, are there any cool or rainy days it's not crowded? If not allowed when swimmers present, either, that seems unfair to get no detecting time in water.

Could you go Spring or Fall, or is the beach closed 24 hours (like closed gate or chain at entrance) when too cold for swimming? Or is it then too cold for you?

If it is a liability issue, I wonder if you could go to the city & sign something in-dicating you (or your next of kin) wouldn't sue if something bad happened to you? But maybe they don't want to do exceptions or issue permits, for reasons only they could know.

I have no knowledge of the bacteria thing. Hope something works out for you. Best wishes, George (MN)

To answer these questions as best as I can:

No, you can't detect in the water when the beach is "open".

It might be possible to go before or after the season. I haven't tried that. There is no guard there when it is closed. The person with the attitude that yelled at me is the one that tests the water for bacteria each day. He had a clipboard and a vial that he collected a water sample in.

I don't believe it's a liability issue as he didn't seem concerned about me at all, just that I was in the water "off-hours" and digging.

Scott

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Re: Run In With City "Official" At Rochester, NY Beach

Unless the lost item is engraved there is no way to identify the item as belonging to a certain person, just because someone lost a 18k wedding ring and you found one doesn't mean that ring found is the one they acutally lost, or one lost by someone else........

As far as I am concerned if the item found isn't engraved or marked with some kind of indentifying mark the loser can identify prior to my showing item to them, then there is no way to identify the owner and it is mine.....

 

[DrJoePrime]

Re: Run In With City "Official" At Rochester, NY Beach

Unless the lost item is engraved there is no way to identify the item as belonging to a certain person, just because someone lost a 18k wedding ring and you found one doesn't mean that ring found is the one they acutally lost, or one lost by someone else........

As far as I am concerned if the item found isn't engraved or marked with some kind of indentifying mark the loser can identify prior to my showing item to them, then there is no way to identify the owner and it is mine.....

I don't want to project a "holier than thou" attitude. What concerns me is the ignorance of many detectorists about how they consider "finder's keepers" applying to them. I also keep (very easily) any unidentifiable jewelery...but I also make an effort trying to return identifiable items. I'd like to think this is just common sense in our hobby.

As far as the main topic (sorry for the digression)....sometimes it's a matter of personalities and that particular "official" seems to be a bit harsh. I think talking to someone higher up and explaining the good things you do...removing dangerous trash (I've picked up literally dozens of sharp kitchen and fishing knives from the beach)...finding lost items (which you can imply you try to return when possible) and that you have absolutely NO negative effects on the beach. It's worth the effort...you may get specific permission.

And think how your next meeting with that "official" will go!

HH Joe

 

[StalkerSteve]

Re: Run In With City "Official" At Rochester, NY Beach

Lived in Rottenchester for 45 yrs. Live alittle south now(Hen.) Wouldn't step in Ontario or Durand beaches. Too much Bad water!! The law is the law, hit it after labor day(right after.) SS

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Re: Run In With City "Official" At Rochester, NY Beach

Unless the lost item is engraved there is no way to identify the item as belonging to a certain person, just because someone lost a 18k wedding ring and you found one doesn't mean that ring found is the one they acutally lost, or one lost by someone else........

As far as I am concerned if the item found isn't engraved or marked with some kind of indentifying mark the loser can identify prior to my showing item to them, then there is no way to identify the owner and it is mine.....

I don't want to project a "holier than thou" attitude. What concerns me is the ignorance of many detectorists about how they consider "finder's keepers" applying to them. I also keep (very easily) any unidentifiable jewelery...but I also make an effort trying to return identifiable items. I'd like to think this is just common sense in our hobby.

As far as the main topic (sorry for the digression)....sometimes it's a matter of personalities and that particular "official" seems to be a bit harsh. I think talking to someone higher up and explaining the good things you do...removing dangerous trash (I've picked up literally dozens of sharp kitchen and fishing knives from the beach)...finding lost items (which you can imply you try to return when possible) and that you have absolutely NO negative effects on the beach. It's worth the effort...you may get specific permission.

And think how your next meeting with that "official" will go!

HH Joe

Joe, not sure what you meant by quoting my post. I have returned rings that owners could identify, but unless the jewelry is engraved there is no way for someone to identify the specific wedding band or diamond ring I found as theirs.....The exact same diamond ring is sold by the hundreds by chain jewelry stores, if there is no identifying marks there is no way of knowing whose ring it is........

No I do not turn over found items to the lost and found, nor do I pay to run ads saying found plain 14K wedding band, again there are no identifying marks on the item found..... After all, the beaches here are used by tens of thousands of out of state tourists every day..... I have looked for rings people asked me to look for and returned them when I found them, but again they had to have identifying marks, engraved, or scratches where they said they were.........There are people on the beach who will try to steal the ring you find by saying it is theirs, that they just lost it, although it is obvious buy the ring size that it would never fit on their fat fingers....

 

[Buried Crap NJ]

Re: Run In With City "Official" At Rochester, NY Beach

I have been hunting a few years(38) to have learned NOT to trust the public. I have been call off the beach by police, having to explain that I did not have someone's ring. Its a good thing I am well versed in the laws to stand up to them as well. While a short few years ago 80's and 90's handing a ring back to a lost person was the norm, that boat has since sailed. I found a lost person through facebook and made contact about their lost ring. Everything matched up school, year, name, when she lost it and the same beach, and same weekend! The local police made contact within 24 hrs telling me to stop or be charged with harassment. I showed them the freekin ring with her name, " ya nice don't make contact again"
I have had doors slammed in my face when giving the ring back. I have had kids make threats because
I found there ring where they did not belong, and the parents went nuts!
People approach me every time I hunt asking what I found, "quarters dimes nickles". Otherwise its there's! Could be that I don't live in Candyland, and maybe where you guys live they all go around singing Cumbaya! If asked on the beach I will spend time looking for lost items, its the right thing to do! I have returned many rings, chains, keys. I will still do that deed. If an item I find gets listed as lost and I can reasonably match it to being theirs., they get it back. I once listed a found item and received over one hundred calls for weeks, mostly from the same people trying to get the info correct so they could have it. NEVER again. If they miss it they should make the effort to get it back.

 

[artzstuff1]

Re: Run In With City "Official" At Rochester, NY Beach

You need to take one of these to the beach with you and clear a spot out!!!!

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Re: Run In With City "Official" At Rochester, NY Beach

I have been hunting a few years(38) to have learned NOT to trust the public. I have been call off the beach by police, having to explain that I did not have someone's ring. Its a good thing I am well versed in the laws to stand up to them as well. While a short few years ago 80's and 90's handing a ring back to a lost person was the norm, that boat has since sailed. I found a lost person through facebook and made contact about their lost ring. Everything matched up school, year, name, when she lost it and the same beach, and same weekend! The local police made contact within 24 hrs telling me to stop or be charged with harassment. I showed them the freekin ring with her name, " ya nice don't make contact again"
I have had doors slammed in my face when giving the ring back. I have had kids make threats because
I found there ring where they did not belong, and the parents went nuts!
People approach me every time I hunt asking what I found, "quarters dimes nickles". Otherwise its there's! Could be that I don't live in Candyland, and maybe where you guys live they all go around singing Cumbaya! If asked on the beach I will spend time looking for lost items, its the right thing to do! I have returned many rings, chains, keys. I will still do that deed. If an item I find gets listed as lost and I can reasonably match it to being theirs., they get it back. I once listed a found item and received over one hundred calls for weeks, mostly from the same people trying to get the info correct so they could have it. NEVER again. If they miss it they should make the effort to get it back.

if a wedding band is important to someone, then engrave it with their initials or the date of the wedding, if a diamond ring is important, engrave it with his or her initials... Same with bracelets and watches...

It isn't rocket science.....If the jewelry is important to someone DON'T WEAR IT IN THE WATER.....

Typical conversation........

Them....Did you find my ring/bracelet/watch I lost?
Me........What does it look like?
Them....Show me what you found?
Me........No, describe what you lost to me first?