Roman Curse Table (Crusader and all help! )

[Locke]

Hey guys,

I wanted to pick your brains about something I found on my dig near Amsterdam earlier this year. It was a neatly rolled piece of lead. Initially I thought it was used as a weight or perhaps a game token, I believe Crusader actually commented on the photo and mentioned that it might have been a way people just stored lead in those days.

(I can’t figure out how to post a link from my original post, however if you search for “Amsterdam” it will pop up. Attached is the picture of the item I found (next to a musket ball):



Fast forward to a few days ago, I was browsing Instagram and looking at metal detecting finds from England when a conversation about “Roman Curse Tablets” was brought up along with some photos that made me think about the item I found. I’ve never heard of them before until that moment so am a complete novice when it comes to the topic. In short, they were curses, made to inflict malice against someone, written on lead sheets which were then rolled up (and sometimes punctured with a bail). Searching the Portable Antiquities Scheme (database for cataloguing archeological finds in England) I found several “possible Roman Curse Tablets” which resembled my own.



I’m open to any input and thoughts on the matter.

One way to test this out it to gently unroll the lead (and see if there is any text inside), which is where I also seek advice...I’m assuming heating it will make it more malleable and less brittle?

Thanks in advance for your ideas and for taking the time to read this long post!

 

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[Retired Sarge]

Here's the link to your original post.

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/t...ldest-silver-netherlands-long-post-again.html

 

[Al D]

I don’t think heating is a good idea, the brittleness is most likely from the oxide coating, this oxide has a much higher melting point than the lead, so heating it will not have much effect and may cause damage to the item.

 

[CRUSADER]

In all likely hood its just a rolled bit of lead we finds hundreds (literately) a year. They can't be cursing that much all over the place, not even on Roman Sites, as lead was used for thousands of years.

The only way is to open it up, I do it all the time, never found anything in any of them. But I did have a friend find some human hair, which they think was a love spell.

 

[ANTIQUARIAN]

I remember watching a BBC episode of Time Team and they mentioned, "that messages about people and wishes to the gods were often inscribed on pieces of flat lead. The lead was then rolled up and deposited as votive offerings at temples to the gods."

Dave

 

[Anduril]

Don't know about you, but I'd be real careful (and think twice) before opening a curse tablet.
Just ask the families of the guys who found King Tut!

 

[Locke]

Here's the link to your original post.

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/t...ldest-silver-netherlands-long-post-again.html

Thank you for your help. Couldn’t figure out how to do it with just the phone app.

 

[Locke]

I don’t think heating is a good idea, the brittleness is most likely from the oxide coating, this oxide has a much higher melting point than the lead, so heating it will not have much effect and may cause damage to the item.

Noted! Thank you.

 

[Locke]

In all likely hood its just a rolled bit of lead we finds hundreds (literately) a year. They can't be cursing that much all over the place, not even on Roman Sites, as lead was used for thousands of years.

The only way is to open it up, I do it all the time, never found anything in any of them. But I did have a friend find some human hair, which they think was a love spell.

Totally agree and makes senses. With as commonly used as lead was etc. I’ll try unrolling it and seeing what happens Thanks again for the input.

 

[Locke]

I remember watching a BBC episode of Time Team and they mentioned, "that messages about people and wishes to the gods were often inscribed on pieces of flat lead. The lead was then rolled up and deposited as votive offerings at temples to the gods."

Dave

That’s exactly what I gathered from my research, the examples I found online which were translated were very interesting. Very specific like, “ hey Apollo, some guy stole my cows and I hope he won’t be able to eat or sleep until he returns them to me”. [emoji23]

 

[Hillbilly Prince]

Totally agree and makes senses. With as commonly used as lead was etc. I’ll try unrolling it and seeing what happens Thanks again for the input.

There is a possibility there is writing on the inside, or nothing as Crusader noted. I would ask others how they managed to unroll their piece if you want to proceed. I know I would be curious, but I would not want to damage the piece if I could help it.
Your browser on your phone should provide a way to share a link. So you would go to a page, copy the link and then paste it into a post.
Nice find there. If you find anything inside please let us know.

 

[CRUSADER]

I remember watching a BBC episode of Time Team and they mentioned, "that messages about people and wishes to the gods were often inscribed on pieces of flat lead. The lead was then rolled up and deposited as votive offerings at temples to the gods."

Dave

Exactly, so the only time you really find them is at temple sites or shrines/springs.

 

[pa-dirt_nc-sand]

I’m not an expert on unrolling lead. But I have found hundreds of lead bits including some rolled and folded examples. Yours looks super tight, so I would guess it will be a challenge to unroll without some damage, but as mentioned previously the odds that it has writing is slim. So I would place it in a vice that you have padded with some rubber, then using a knife find the edge in the first layer, pry the edge in to force away that outer layer 1/16”, they use some plastic putty knives to gently unroll the package. Work slowly and good luck!

 

[CRUSADER]

I’m not an expert on unrolling lead. But I have found hundreds of lead bits including some rolled and folded examples. Yours looks super tight, so I would guess it will be a challenge to unroll without some damage, but as mentioned previously the odds that it has writing is slim. So I would place it in a vice that you have padded with some rubber, then using a knife find the edge in the first layer, pry the edge in to force away that outer layer 1/16”, they use some plastic putty knives to gently unroll the package. Work slowly and good luck!

You just have to accept a bit of damage, simple.

 

[Locke]

I’m not an expert on unrolling lead. But I have found hundreds of lead bits including some rolled and folded examples. Yours looks super tight, so I would guess it will be a challenge to unroll without some damage, but as mentioned previously the odds that it has writing is slim. So I would place it in a vice that you have padded with some rubber, then using a knife find the edge in the first layer, pry the edge in to force away that outer layer 1/16”, they use some plastic putty knives to gently unroll the package. Work slowly and good luck!

Thank you for the advice! As with lots of things in our hobby patience is the key I’ll post the after pictures in the next few days!

 

[Gene Mean]

That's a really interesting piece. I hope there is something inside. Good luck.