Revolutionary War British Encampment Buttons?

[BernieL]

I went out on a field on the Crown Point Road in Vermont which was the site of a British encampment. The site was apparently at the 20 mile point on the way to Fort Ticonderoga from Charlestown, NH. I found a couple of buttons that I can't Id and would like some help. Also one other whatzit. Thanks for any input

 

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[Iron Patch]

Interesting, both look like foreign military, but post Revolution. Something different for sure.

 

[Lucas]

They look German to me. 19th c.

What's it looks like part of a man's wallet (pocket book) clasp. Rev War is very possible on that one.

 

[CRUSADER]

OK, although the first one has a 'military' feel to it. I'm going with circa 1830 Livery Button:

http://www.colchestertreasurehunting.co.uk/B/buttons.htm

 

[Iron Patch]

OK, although the first one has a 'military' feel to it. I'm going with circa 1830 Livery Button:

http://www.colchestertreasurehunting.co.uk/B/buttons.htm

I was on the fence about that one but the Spanish type crown is what put me over. (along with the lion and probably a motto on the ribbon) The crown looks Spanish and there was some 19th century Spanish coins that show a lion.... at least those are my thoughts without looking. (and there's similar crowns and other lion designs from other countries on coins) If it's a livery it's not typical, but could be.... or foreign and the same idea as a Livery. (civilian)

The backmark could be a good indication which way it goes.

 

[CRUSADER]

OK, although the first one has a 'military' feel to it. I'm going with circa 1830 Livery Button:

http://www.colchestertreasurehunting.co.uk/B/buttons.htm

I was on the fence about that one but the Spanish type crown is what put me over. (along with the lion and probably a motto on the ribbon) The crown looks Spanish and there was some 19th century Spanish coins that show a lion.... at least those are my thoughts without looking. (and there's similar crowns and other lion designs from other countries on coins) If it's a livery it's not typical, but could be.... or foreign and the same idea as a Livery. (civilian)

The backmark could be a good indication which way it goes.

that type of crown also means other things, I think its a Duke or the like

 

[Iron Patch]

OK, although the first one has a 'military' feel to it. I'm going with circa 1830 Livery Button:

http://www.colchestertreasurehunting.co.uk/B/buttons.htm

I was on the fence about that one but the Spanish type crown is what put me over. (along with the lion and probably a motto on the ribbon) The crown looks Spanish and there was some 19th century Spanish coins that show a lion.... at least those are my thoughts without looking. (and there's similar crowns and other lion designs from other countries on coins) If it's a livery it's not typical, but could be.... or foreign and the same idea as a Livery. (civilian)

The backmark could be a good indication which way it goes.

that type of crown also means other things, I think its a Duke or the like

It might actually be something kind of in the middle.... like a service button but not necessarily military.

 

[Lucas]

Good point.

But I'm sticking with German.

Below, Prussia, and some examples of districts with a cat and cartwheel.

 

[CRUSADER]

Good point.

But I'm sticking with German.

Below, Prussia, and some examples of districts with a cat and cartwheel.

We have been discussing the first.

The second I agree with you, but the wheel has been used on many things

 

[Lucas]

I know I have seen it before. I think it is a East India Company button. Wheel is for India.

Colchester DF has WWI Prussian:

 

[Iron Patch]

I know I have seen it before. I think it is a East India Company button. Wheel is for India.

Colchester DF has WWI Prussian:

They might be the same design or close, but the one in this post I'm pretty sure is early. The site is probbaly right, it's just two buttons that look close but are made different. Those WWI types are made of a wierd mixed metal and are light compared to brass. They are one piece in style, so can sometimes be mistaken for being early.


PS... I have seen many errors on that site so I wouldn't consider it a strong reference, just a starting point.

 

[Lucas]

No not for date, just for ID. IMHO our whatsit is much earlier. "Livery button era."

 

[Iron Patch]

No not for date, just for ID. IMHO our whatsit is much earlier. "Livery button era."

I wouldn't be surprised if the same pattern was used for 100 years.... maybe just to confuse us!

 

[Bramblefind]

What else does that Burlington button read?

I know this is pretty crazy but I figure this will at least bump the thread Is that wheel winged on the first button? I believe that is a symbol for German railroads -

i.e.

Also this Austrian mark-

 

[Bramblefind]

More on the "Winged Wheel" -

http://sites.google.com/site/emorgankelley/thewingedwheel

The Wheel has been associated w/ Technology since Time Immemorial. When it acquires Wings its significance increases greatly. The idea of Motion is amplified to an extreme degree: as fast as a bird can fly, and that to the Ancient Greeks and Romans, was the ultimate in speed. This "WINGED WHEEL" is seen most often in connection with ATHENA but also frequently with MERCURY. The Wheel with Wings is, in a sense, a "Spinning" or Moving Wheel. Together with Mercury, by itself or with other Figures, it is the most common Symbol for Communication and/or Transport. Its application in most of the Images below is fairly obvious, as with both IT&T and the two Railroad Companies. But note that in the one from Nassau Electric Railroad it has no Wings; the same notion however is implied by the Sparks emanating from the Wheel's path and by the Flowing Robes of the Rider. Sparks are also flying from the one below that, but this time the Wings are there, as well as the Electric Bulb of a "Lightbearer".

 

[Lucas]

I never saw those WINGS! Duh! Guess I need to look closer.

 

[BernieL]

Here are a couple of better pics of the backs of the buttons after an oil soak. Thanks for all your replies.

 

[Iron Patch]

Looking again, I still think the 2nd is fairly early, but the first maybe not so much.

There's much better methods to clean buttons than oil, and I'll go as far to say oil will make many worse.

 

[BernieL]

Looking again, I still think the 2nd is fairly early, but the first maybe not so much.

There's much better methods to clean buttons than oil, and I'll go as far to say oil will make many worse.

I have heard of using Naval or Aluminium Jelly for gilted buttons, but not much else. Any suggestions are always appreciated.

 

[Iron Patch]

Looking again, I still think the 2nd is fairly early, but the first maybe not so much.

There's much better methods to clean buttons than oil, and I'll go as far to say oil will make many worse.

I have heard of using Naval or Aluminium Jelly for gilted buttons, but not much else. Any suggestions are always appreciated.

Hrydrogen peroxide would have done well for the second one. Cleaned the parts of crud and made the detail better, but left a green tone to look dug. You don't run them under water before or after, just the HP.

I would bet your oiled button doesn't look as good as it does in the pics. But it does have to do with personal taste as well.