Revolutionary era folding knife-owners or makers mark?

[scratcher]

Hi all, I have another find I need some help with. Recently out of electrolysis this knife has a mark on the blade, OATES. You can see it in the picture near where the blade enters the handle. What I can't figure is if this is an owners or makers mark. Does anyone know which this is? Seems like it would have to be ordered special to have the name stamped on the blade. The intriguing thing is that there was one soldier camped here that I can find records from in the War of 1812 named OATES. I found another blade from what seems to be the exact same knife very nearby. It also is pictured. I can't see any names on that blade. Thanks in advance for any help.

 

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[Woodland Detectors]

Those blades look very similar! Wouldnt that be cool if it was that gentlemans knife. Makes for a cool story

 

[Montana Jim]

S.E. OATES

http://www.armsbid.com/8blades.htm

Check out Lot 1055... ??

Who knows... it's all I found by that name, except for modern makers.

 

[Gypsy Heart]

AN EARLY FOLDING KNIFE SHOWING NATURAL AGED PATINA THIS STYLE OF KNIFE ACTUALLY DATE BACK TO THE EARLY 1700'S THROUGH THE 1850's. THIS IS A FOUND WAR OF 1812 PERIOD KNIFE RECOVERED SHORTLY AFTER THE END OF THE WAR IN 1814 NEAR FORT McHENRY. SIMILAR TYPES OF THIS KNIFE CAN BE FOUND IN THE NEUMANN'S COLLECTORS ENCYCLOPEDIA OF THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION AND OTHER COLONIAL ERA REFERENCE BOOKS............
For similar examples, please see Neumann & Kravic's: "Collector's Illustrated Encyclopedia of the American Revolution", pg. 173-174. Overall length, 4 1/4"/(7 1/2" extended)".

 

[taz42o]

I found reference to Albert Oates -maker of knives on second link a little better than half way down page under patent and trademarks.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vintage-SHELDON-POCKET-KNIFE-Albert-Oates-Sheffield_W0QQitemZ110344823039QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Colectables_Knives_Swords?hash=item110344823039&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1701|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/A2A/records.aspx?cat=199-bus12&cid=-1&Gsm=2008-06-18#-1

 

[fldiver]

It's what is called a "touchmark". Blacksmiths and Bladesmiths use them to brand their work. I am a Blacksmith and in the process of getting one now and they are fairly expensive...lol.

 

[taz42o]

It's what is called a "touchmark". Blacksmiths and Bladesmiths use them to brand their work. I am a Blacksmith and in the process of getting one now and they are fairly expensive...lol.

Can touch marks be transferred to different people? Because I have found dates about Albert Oates that makes it seem he was in business longer than he could have be alive.

 

[taz42o]

8th listing down.

http://www.a2a.org.uk/about/contributors/2746-list.asp

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

the knife in question is called a toothpick...sometimes a texas toothpick, sometimes a fish knife, though the fish knife of that design has a blade for removing scales.

no idea on the maker, sorry.

 

[72cheyenne]

I actually have a knife that looks very much like the knife in question. I'll see if I can find it and take a few pics. Don't remember what markings, if any, are on the blade.

 

[scratcher]

Thanks for the info so far guys. I'm sure you guys are right about this being a makers mark or "touchmark". The more I thought about this after posting the more I realized it would be unlikely someone would pay to have their name stamped in the blade. The bladesmith would have to create a stamp and then apply it during the forging process. Much more likely this is a touchmark. I have just never seen one on a blade where this one is...

What were the earliest dates you found for Alred Oates, Taz? Probably the same family. I understand this knife design was used from mid 1700's to early 1800's. The other relics I found at this site range from 1750ish to 1812ish. One just like this was found at Valley Forge and is in Sketchbook 1776. They make replicas of them now. My feelings are this one was probably carried by an 1812 soldier based on it's location and other recovered relics. Could have been Indian fur trade item also, though.

 

[scratcher]

Thanks for the info from that book, Gypsy. Looks like I have a new book request for my birthday.