PotBelly Jim
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- Dec 8, 2017
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Many thanks to Dr. Glover for providing a textual summation of his presentation at this year's Rendezvous. Many people were unable to attend this year due to travel restrictions. He generously took the time to write this down for everyone who missed the event:
Rendezvous 2020
I had hoped to get this out before now -- but somehow a combination of life seasoned with procrastination intervened.
The talk I gave at the 2020 Rendezvous asked the question:
What is the Most Important Missing Clue about the Lost Dutchman Mine?
The answer is: Not clues, not maps, but rather the lack of a CLAIM.
Now anyone who has studied the old claims knows that those claims rarely give the location of a mine. The written claims for the three mines Waltz claimed in Yavapai County give no clue to the physical location of those mines. The closest they come to location is the mining district. If the claim was filed in the Turkey Creek Mining Book then we only know that the mine was in that district. Sometimes not even that.
If we had a claim, while we still wouldnât know where the mine is, we would know where it isnât. For you see, the lost Dutchman Mine is probably the most found lost mine in the country!
Waltz died in 1891; just ten years after he died the mine had been found, and found and found. The Mohave County Miner newspaper reported in its October 12, 1901 issue:
âThe Lost Dutchman mine has again been found. The fact of the finding of this mine for the past twenty years has kept alive the mining industries of the territory. At least a dozen Lost Dutchman mines are found yearly and, strange to relate, many of them turn out to be remarkably good producers. Let the prospector keep on finding the old lost mine and his fortune is made, no matter if it is not the original.â
Interestingly, the article says 20 years, probably a typo. It should have read just 10 years.
To the best of my understanding newspapers and documents show the mine has been found in, at the least, the following counties â Gila, Maricopa, Mohave, Pinal and Yavapai.
Milton Rose found it in the Four Peaks. He claimed it was a rich gold pocket which he mined out. He got $11,000 in gold, which does not seem like much money for the Dutchman. However, back then gold was $16.00 an ounce. At todayâs gold price and factoring in inflation, Roseâs gold find would be worth millions.
The above is the heart of the talk. However, before I went into it, I talked about the Ely family. Why? Just before starting my talk I heard someone in the audience say something about Elyâs book the Lost Dutchman Mine. So I thought it best to address Ely and his book first. Following is a bulleted summation.
⢠The Ely family was well known in the East. One of Simsâ sons, Northcutt Ely, was a very accomplished attorney of international standing.
⢠Northcutt was known for his knowledge of international law, especially the law of the sea.
⢠An indication is a story told in his family: that Northcutt had an annoying habit ⌠he would call his wife sometime in the afternoon to say he was bringing the president home for dinner. No advanced notice.
⢠Sims retired shortly before WW II. He was called back into service in an administrative position.
⢠Sims kept busy (understatement). But, with the end of WW II Simsâ family was concerned that Sims would just sit around â which they thought would not be good for his mind.
⢠Jim Bark wrote a manuscript in the in the â30s, which has become known as the âBark Notesâ.
⢠Bark wrote the manuscript for publication, but he was unsuccessful.
⢠Bark died in 1939.
⢠Simsâ family floated the idea to Sims about him writing a book as a tribute to his and Barkâs friendship, and their search for the Lost Dutchman Mine.
⢠Sims embraced the idea of writing a tribute to Jim and their friendship.
⢠Now the bad news. Sims wrote a manuscript that would likely have made a good government report â detailed, linear. But it did not make a good book.
⢠When Simsâ manuscript was finished sufficiently to be presented to a publisher, Sims and family started sending the manuscript to publishers.
⢠However, the Ely family was not your typical family â they moved in the upper echelon of Washington and New York. Thus, they did not submit the manuscript through normal channels.
⢠They sent it to friends, people who were editors, senior editors, the chief executives of publishing.
⢠When you read the rejection letters they got it is âinterestingâ. Those letters are personal letters saying something like: A most interesting manuscript, unfortunately it does not fit with our current plans. When you next get to New York please let us know for a good bridge game, or dinner, or âŚ.
⢠The family kept trying. Finally they tried Wm. Morrow and Co. and, of course the manuscript went to a senior officer(s).
⢠William Morrow turned it over to John Willey. After leaving the Army (WWII) in 1946 John Willey went to work at William Morrow and Co.
⢠Willey was a well-educated man. He first had a senior position as executive assistant to the Morrow(s). Circa 1952 he became treasurer, and then editor in chief.
⢠Elyâs manuscript was submitted to Morrow and Co. circa late 1940s.
⢠It seems that what was a sort of âhot potatoâ was given to Willey.
⢠Willey saw two things: First, that Simsâ manuscript was essentially âunpublishableâ. Second, it was a great story.
⢠Willey took over the project using Simsâ manuscript. With a good imagination Willey turned out a very successful book. Multiple printings in the States, a British edition and I think also a Canadian edition.
⢠However, note that a good part âas in almost all, of the book â is Willeyâs creation. For example, the entire first chapter was written by Willey. The book was written to sell! And it did.
⢠When you read what survives of Elyâs manuscript it quickly becomes apparent as to why it had to be totally rewritten.
The point is, do not read Elyâs book as factual â in fact there is some possibility that when the book first came out it was categorized as fiction.
How do I know this? I knew and know the Ely family. Simsâ son, Northcutt, was a personal friend. He passed to me the surviving Sims Ely family files concerning Simsâ involvement in the search for the mineâwhich also included the correspondence between the family and Willey. As for Willeyâs history, look up his obituary in the New York Times.
Rendezvous 2020
I had hoped to get this out before now -- but somehow a combination of life seasoned with procrastination intervened.
The talk I gave at the 2020 Rendezvous asked the question:
What is the Most Important Missing Clue about the Lost Dutchman Mine?
The answer is: Not clues, not maps, but rather the lack of a CLAIM.
Now anyone who has studied the old claims knows that those claims rarely give the location of a mine. The written claims for the three mines Waltz claimed in Yavapai County give no clue to the physical location of those mines. The closest they come to location is the mining district. If the claim was filed in the Turkey Creek Mining Book then we only know that the mine was in that district. Sometimes not even that.
If we had a claim, while we still wouldnât know where the mine is, we would know where it isnât. For you see, the lost Dutchman Mine is probably the most found lost mine in the country!
Waltz died in 1891; just ten years after he died the mine had been found, and found and found. The Mohave County Miner newspaper reported in its October 12, 1901 issue:
âThe Lost Dutchman mine has again been found. The fact of the finding of this mine for the past twenty years has kept alive the mining industries of the territory. At least a dozen Lost Dutchman mines are found yearly and, strange to relate, many of them turn out to be remarkably good producers. Let the prospector keep on finding the old lost mine and his fortune is made, no matter if it is not the original.â
Interestingly, the article says 20 years, probably a typo. It should have read just 10 years.
To the best of my understanding newspapers and documents show the mine has been found in, at the least, the following counties â Gila, Maricopa, Mohave, Pinal and Yavapai.
Milton Rose found it in the Four Peaks. He claimed it was a rich gold pocket which he mined out. He got $11,000 in gold, which does not seem like much money for the Dutchman. However, back then gold was $16.00 an ounce. At todayâs gold price and factoring in inflation, Roseâs gold find would be worth millions.
The above is the heart of the talk. However, before I went into it, I talked about the Ely family. Why? Just before starting my talk I heard someone in the audience say something about Elyâs book the Lost Dutchman Mine. So I thought it best to address Ely and his book first. Following is a bulleted summation.
⢠The Ely family was well known in the East. One of Simsâ sons, Northcutt Ely, was a very accomplished attorney of international standing.
⢠Northcutt was known for his knowledge of international law, especially the law of the sea.
⢠An indication is a story told in his family: that Northcutt had an annoying habit ⌠he would call his wife sometime in the afternoon to say he was bringing the president home for dinner. No advanced notice.
⢠Sims retired shortly before WW II. He was called back into service in an administrative position.
⢠Sims kept busy (understatement). But, with the end of WW II Simsâ family was concerned that Sims would just sit around â which they thought would not be good for his mind.
⢠Jim Bark wrote a manuscript in the in the â30s, which has become known as the âBark Notesâ.
⢠Bark wrote the manuscript for publication, but he was unsuccessful.
⢠Bark died in 1939.
⢠Simsâ family floated the idea to Sims about him writing a book as a tribute to his and Barkâs friendship, and their search for the Lost Dutchman Mine.
⢠Sims embraced the idea of writing a tribute to Jim and their friendship.
⢠Now the bad news. Sims wrote a manuscript that would likely have made a good government report â detailed, linear. But it did not make a good book.
⢠When Simsâ manuscript was finished sufficiently to be presented to a publisher, Sims and family started sending the manuscript to publishers.
⢠However, the Ely family was not your typical family â they moved in the upper echelon of Washington and New York. Thus, they did not submit the manuscript through normal channels.
⢠They sent it to friends, people who were editors, senior editors, the chief executives of publishing.
⢠When you read the rejection letters they got it is âinterestingâ. Those letters are personal letters saying something like: A most interesting manuscript, unfortunately it does not fit with our current plans. When you next get to New York please let us know for a good bridge game, or dinner, or âŚ.
⢠The family kept trying. Finally they tried Wm. Morrow and Co. and, of course the manuscript went to a senior officer(s).
⢠William Morrow turned it over to John Willey. After leaving the Army (WWII) in 1946 John Willey went to work at William Morrow and Co.
⢠Willey was a well-educated man. He first had a senior position as executive assistant to the Morrow(s). Circa 1952 he became treasurer, and then editor in chief.
⢠Elyâs manuscript was submitted to Morrow and Co. circa late 1940s.
⢠It seems that what was a sort of âhot potatoâ was given to Willey.
⢠Willey saw two things: First, that Simsâ manuscript was essentially âunpublishableâ. Second, it was a great story.
⢠Willey took over the project using Simsâ manuscript. With a good imagination Willey turned out a very successful book. Multiple printings in the States, a British edition and I think also a Canadian edition.
⢠However, note that a good part âas in almost all, of the book â is Willeyâs creation. For example, the entire first chapter was written by Willey. The book was written to sell! And it did.
⢠When you read what survives of Elyâs manuscript it quickly becomes apparent as to why it had to be totally rewritten.
The point is, do not read Elyâs book as factual â in fact there is some possibility that when the book first came out it was categorized as fiction.
How do I know this? I knew and know the Ely family. Simsâ son, Northcutt, was a personal friend. He passed to me the surviving Sims Ely family files concerning Simsâ involvement in the search for the mineâwhich also included the correspondence between the family and Willey. As for Willeyâs history, look up his obituary in the New York Times.
Even though Waltz never filed a claim, none of the so called found mines fit the clues left by Jacob Waltz. At least 12 of his clues should be verified on the spot. They describe what is there, what is close by, and what can be seen from there. Waltz's directions do not take you to different counties, they keep you in only one. Waltz's directions take you into those Salt Mountains.
Here's what Milton Rose had to say about Ely's book:
