Reasonable searching for boundaries?

[blackchipjim]

Hello everyone, I will try to cut the point in short order here. I returned from an out of state prospecting trip this past week that was really enjoyable. I went to known public panning areas at first to get my desert legs and wits about me. I started to go to an area that I researched online using land matters and the diggings for reference. I didn't want to trespass on someone else's claims or land for that matter. The land I was on was BLM land and had 4placer claims and 6lode claims. I really didn't go all over the 160acres that would have encompassed said claims but did do some walking and the wife did find an lode mine. I didn't come upon one stake or noticeable thing that lead me to believe I was on or near anyone's claims. Can anyone give me advice on a situation like this?

 

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[arizau]

Get familiar with this site. Welcome to Land Matters. Once you learn how to use it you will be able to determine if your area of interest has active claims or not and if so there is info that will inform you which quarter section(s) they are located in but not their exact boundaries. To be safe, use a GPS to avoid those areas for prospecting but you can usually cross or even explore them depending. I do a lot of prospecting on unclaimed land that is in the same vicinity of claimed areas and you can too if there are no laws to the contrary.

Good luck.

 

[blackchipjim]

Thanks, I had posted a long time ago about accidently trespass but that was before clay diggings gave me the site to look for claims. The area I was sampling was in the same area but no markers. If anyone would have been there or if the area had even a single marker I could have looked up the areas to stay away from. Land matters even let me know whose claim I was on or near just no stakes or markers.

 

[HappySwede]

So a claim is valid even without the posted signs?

 

[bobw53]

Time to head on down to the court house and visit the clerks office...

When I first got into this game, I thought that seemed ridiculous, but that's where the paperwork is..

The BLM and therefore LandMatters will get you to the quarter section, but from there... Its down
to the clerks office..

IF you are lucky, the paperwork will be online, if you aren't fortunate enough to have it online, you really
have to drag your butt into the clerks office... There is no other way...

AND, the crummy part, the clerks office doesn't have a nice map to show you.. You have to pull the paperwork on each
and every claim in the area you are working, and piece together the map yourself...

Its intimidating at first, but you've got a good chance the ladies down at the Clerk's office are going to be really nice, and
they will help you find what you are looking for (that book and page thing on the claim reports).. Remember they don't
know a mining claim from a ham sandwich, their job is to record paperwork, and then help others find the paperwork,
they DO NOT care what that paperwork says, or even what it pertains to.... So you are pretty much on your own..

There is no way around this.. The county clerk's office is where the official paper work is..

 

[Goldwasher]

Not all states reqiure corners for placer claims. Corners need to be up for lode. All claims should have a location monument.

Even if a placer has marked corners you could walk right past. You can't always get to the exact location of a corner due to terrain.

The only map of a claim is created/produced by the locator(s) it will be at the county. If it is plotted correctly...it will show you (describe) where the claim sits on a map

It is still up to you to know!!

Learn the PLSS, learn when that won't help ,learn to search files at the recorder. Use online tools for sanding,polishing and cross reference.

Pay someone to find out for you

Be a high-grader or trespasser.

In your situation you only have about those three options.

Don't lose heart we're all in the same situation

 

[Johnnybravo300]

It's not up to the claim owner to tell you where you are. That's your responsibility as a prospector. The info is out there just takes some research. Go look for claim maps at the county office with your mtrs data and start there.
Corner posts aren't required but location markers are for placer claims.
In most places mineral trespass is a felony and some claim owners are hard about it so know where you are.

 

[Terry Soloman]

I've seen rock cairn corner markers on placer claims. Sometimes you have to know what you're looking for, other times claims are not marked properly. It is still YOUR responsibility to know where you are.

 

[HappySwede]

So even trespassing a claim is a felony? And claims can last forever, more or less? Could this be misused to cut people off from certain properties or ground? Is claiming private ground possible?

In comparison - swedish law. 99% of land is private but can be claimed by anyone for a maximum of 3 years. This gives you the right to prospect the ground in any way, but not to mine it.

Trespassing is legal or even to prospect for other minerals other than the one claimed. The land owner is actually even allowed to mine for his ”household needs” despite the ground being claimed. This law has however never been put to use yet, as there’s no placers to mine in the whole country, gems or minerals.

In order to start mining, be it lode or placer, further permits are needed. These are mostly impossible to get and are activated mostly some 10 years from claiming the ground. There’s an ongoing conflict between mining companies and the native Sami people, whom get mining shut down because of their ancient nomad reindeer herding lifestyle.

The claim map works superb - its instant and exact. Small scale gold panning is pretty much legal even on claims it appears, but any long going operation even with a highbanker would be impossible to conduct, even on your own claim and probably even on your own land.

 

[winners58]

you can get down to the 1/4 section like 28N 14W section 21 SW or NW or SE or NE by using the "I" key in LandMatters claim maps
then take the locations you want to research down to the county recorder/clerk get on the computer to search TRS
that could get the original location but there could be transfers or labor that are listed elsewhere so then I search by the
names of the people I find or by document type, some counties have an online search ether just an index or offer a subscription for the documents. you would have to go down there to see the actual documents recorded.

one to give it a try, try the by doc type scroll down in the dropdown menu to "mine location" to give a list by the most recent dates
Douglas County Oregon e-Government - Clerks Office

a good how to on locations and how mining claims are laid out with PLSS;
https://www.icmj.com/magazine/print...our-own-claim-researching-mining-claims-3648/
.
one section = 640 acres, 36 sections to a Township
.

 

[Jim in Idaho]

So even trespassing a claim is a felony? And claims can last forever, more or less? Could this be misused to cut people off from certain properties or ground? Is claiming private ground possible?

In comparison - swedish law. 99% of land is private but can be claimed by anyone for a maximum of 3 years. This gives you the right to prospect the ground in any way, but not to mine it.

Trespassing is legal or even to prospect for other minerals other than the one claimed. The land owner is actually even allowed to mine for his ”household needs” despite the ground being claimed. This law has however never been put to use yet, as there’s no placers to mine in the whole country, gems or minerals.

In order to start mining, be it lode or placer, further permits are needed. These are mostly impossible to get and are activated mostly some 10 years from claiming the ground. There’s an ongoing conflict between mining companies and the native Sami people, whom get mining shut down because of their ancient nomad reindeer herding lifestyle.

The claim map works superb - its instant and exact. Small scale gold panning is pretty much legal even on claims it appears, but any long going operation even with a highbanker would be impossible to conduct, even on your own claim and probably even on your own land.

View attachment 1523469

Goran, having a claim does not give you the right to keep people off. It only gives you the right to any minerals present. But, it is illegal to prospect on, or remove minerals from, somebody else's claim. Hope you're doing well, my friend.
jim

 

[bobw53]

So even trespassing a claim is a felony? And claims can last forever, more or less?

Already been said, mineral rights only...

Somebody else may own the water rights, oil and gas I think is a seperate thing.. Odds are in the west that somebody has the
grazing rights and you get to share your claim with their cows.... Anybody can camp there, target shoot there, hunt there,
fish there.... A nudist colony could set up camp on your claim for a week and play naked freeze tag, and as long as they
aren't interfering with your mining or mineral rights, there isn't a darn thing you can do about it, except maybe join in.

Cows chilling on my claim. Nothing worse than when they drop a plop in the hole you're working.

 

[Jim in Idaho]

Already been said, mineral rights only...

Cows chilling on my claim. Nothing worse than when they drop a plop in the hole you're working.

Yeah, Bob, there is something worse....like when they completely befoul the only water in the creek for several miles in either direction.:-)
Jim

 

[bobw53]

Yeah, Bob, there is something worse....like when they completely befoul the only water in the creek for several miles in either direction.:-)
Jim

You've got water That must be handy.

 

[Reed Lukens]

Hello everyone, I will try to cut the point in short order here. I returned from an out of state prospecting trip this past week that was really enjoyable. I went to known public panning areas at first to get my desert legs and wits about me. I started to go to an area that I researched online using land matters and the diggings for reference. I didn't want to trespass on someone else's claims or land for that matter. The land I was on was BLM land and had 4placer claims and 6lode claims. I really didn't go all over the 160acres that would have encompassed said claims but did do some walking and the wife did find an lode mine. I didn't come upon one stake or noticeable thing that lead me to believe I was on or near anyone's claims. Can anyone give me advice on a situation like this?

There's a lot of abandoned lodes and holes in the ground. If there was machinery and a road to it, then it's probably active, but just a hole cut into the hillside, overgrown with grass and partially caved in the front is usually abandoned. Also though, when in known lode areas, watch where you are walking because vent holes covered with grass are not always fun to find.

 

[blackchipjim]

Hi again everyone, spent a week in Arizona doing some prospecting. Some of the areas were public panning which for a greenhorn was great for not having to worry about tresspassing. One area was my researched area that I checked out at home then put that research into practice. I learned after coming home that I still need to do more research on any area that I plan on prospecting.