Rainha dos Anjos possibly found

[hung]

Portuguese ship 'Rainha dos Anjos' sunken in the night of june 17th, 1722 was possibly found in Guanabara bay in Rio.
Brazilian divers led by Jose Galindo, found wood wrecks in the location they expected and were searching for years.
The cargo is estimated in US$ 1 billion and includes chinese porcelain from the Kangxi empire.
The pieces found were sent to analysis. Due to the mud present in the site, Galindo believes this acted to preserve the cargo.

 

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[Alexandre]

Hung, this has already appeared here:

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,283327.0.html

We are talking about the remains of the 56 gun Portuguese sovereign vessel Nossa Senhora Rainha dos Anjos e São Carlos. Built in 1714 for the Crown, it fought back a Turkisk fleet at the battle of Cape Matapan, in 1717, under the orders of Dom Francisco, brother of King João V.

In 1722, this nau was coming in from Macau on a royal mission. It had been anchored off Rio de Janeiro for a month before a candle left lit inside the ship turned it ablaze. The mishap was reported by the Gazeta de Lisboa:

"(...) tambem se receberaõ cartas do Rio de Janeiro, em que se avisa haver chegado de Macao àquelle porto em 15. de Mayo a nao chamada Rainha dos Anjos, em que vinha embarcado de volta da China Monsenhor Mezzabarba. Patriarca de Alexandria; & que em 17. de Junho succedera a desgraça de se queimar, o que procedera de se haver deixado por descuido huma vela acesa no poraó, onde se tinha ido tirar hum barco de porcelana: que a gente da terra correra à praya a embarcarse para salvar a nao, ou a fazenda, o naõ executàraõ pelo medo de 80. barris de Polvora, & 40. caixoens de granadas, que nella vinhaõ; & assim ardera duas horas antes de voar; perdendo-se neste incendio mais de hum milhaõ de cruzados em fazendas pertencentes a particulares, além do presente que o Emperador da China mandava a ElRey N. S. que Deos guarde, q se avaliava em mais de 300U cruzados".

Brazil has already said that it belongs to them:

Tesouro de nau portuguesa pertence ao Brasil, diz militar

São Paulo, 17 nov (Lusa) - O tesouro arqueológico que será resgatado de uma nau portuguesa do século 18, cujos restos foram descobertos no litoral do Rio de Janeiro, pertence ao Brasil, disse nesta terça-feira à Agência Lusa o comandante Jairo Fontenelle, do Departamento de Portos e Costas da Marinha portuguesa.
Ele disse que a legislação garante ao Brasil a propriedade de qualquer material submerso há mais de cinco anos.
"A Marinha permite que particulares façam a exploração de bens submersos, com o ressarcimento dos custos da operação, desde que o tesouro arqueológico permaneça com a União", explicou o comandante.
A determinação consta da Norma da Marinha (Normam) número 10, que dispõe sobre pesquisa, exploração, remoção e demolição de objetos ou bens afundados, submersos, encalhados e perdidos em águas sob jurisdição nacional.
No final de semana foi anunciada a descoberta de restos da "Rainha dos Anjos", uma nau que naufragou em 17 de junho de 1722, a 1,5 quilômetro do Rio de Janeiro, com uma carga avaliada em 670 milhões de euros (R$ 1,7 bilhão, ao câmbio atual).
O navio, que viajava da China para Lisboa, fez uma escala no Rio de Janeiro e estava carregado com 136 preciosas peças de porcelana chinesa da era do imperador Kangxi (1654-1722), quarto da dinastia Qing. Atualmente, há apenas um vaso da época em conservação no Museu Imperial da China.

Descoberta

O mergulhador José Galindo fez a descoberta, que ainda será confirmada por laboratórios dos Estados Unidos, quando procurava uma hélice perdida por um rebocador no ano passado.
O comandante Fontenelle disse ainda que a exploração dos bens supostamente encontrados da "Rainha dos Anjos" só poderá ser iniciada após a liberação por parte das autoridades marítimas.
"Uma coisa é a pesquisa (para encontrar os destroços). A exploração é outro processo que depende de uma nova autorização, segundo a norma marítima", afirmou.
A "Rainha dos Anjos" é considerada a nau portuguesa com a carga mais rara e preciosa de todos os naufrágios conhecidos da costa brasileira, segundo especialistas e historiadores de arte antiga chinesa.
Uma vela acesa esquecida no interior da embarcação provocou um incêndio, seguido de uma grande explosão, que partiu a nau e que foi ouvida por moradores do Rio de Janeiro.
Embora a nau tenha ficado em pedaços, o mergulhador acredita que achará peças inteiras, porque os chineses embalavam os objetos com várias camadas de argila e palha de arroz, além da caixa de madeira.

And Portugal has stated that we want this find (if there is a find) to be treated according to archaeological methods:

Brasil: Especialista espera que salvaguarda e valorização da nau portuguesa siga parâmetros internacionais

Lisboa, 17 Nov (Lusa) - O arqueólogo português Francisco Alves salientou hoje a importância de se assegurar a "integral salvaguarda e valorização dos vestígios" da nau portuguesa do século XVIII, descoberta no litoral brasileiro, segundo a convenção da UNESCO, que o Brasil não ratificou.
Uma equipa de mergulhadores encontrou, recentemente, perto do litoral do Rio de Janeiro, restos de uma nau portuguesa que se presumem ser da 'Rainha dos Anjos', que naufragou em Julho de 1722, com uma carga avaliada em 670 milhões de euros.
Fonte do Instituto de Gestão do Património Arquitectónico e Arqueológico (IGESPAR), do Ministério da Cultura, afirmou à Lusa ter "tomado conhecimento da situação", adiantando que se encontra a "analisar e a recolher informações sobre o achado, e a desenvolver os contactos necessários".

I don't have any problems with the Brazilian Navy having it.

Just a "buyer's beware", here:

1) the cargo was mainly perishable goods, like silk. That has long been gone. The ship burned for two whole hours before the 80 barrels of gunpowder and the 40 large crates of grenades exploded.

2) this ship was then extensively salvaged by the Portuguese Custom House, from July 1722 till June 1724. A diver (Jorge Mainarde, probably an english or a french citizen, George Maynard) was granted this salvage task, according to a certification issued by the Lisbon Customs House on July, 6th, 1726.

I really think that whatever is still lying down there won't compensate any money invested in it. It's, basically, either another scam or some poor researched treasure hunting venture.

 

[Voldbjerg]

What route did the Portuguese use coming and going to Macao - isn't Rio is an odd port of call going home?

/V

 

[Alexandre]

Actually, no. Towards the late 18th century and up until (and even afterwards) Brazil's independence from Portugal, this South American colony was the first target for selling asian goods - silk, ceramics, drugs. Too many people, with too much silver smuggled from the Spanish colonies via the River Plate route created a huge market, hungry for the luxurious and the exquisite.

In the early 19th century, a merchant would order a ship to be built in India, would charge it with opium on his first voyage to China, would sell the opium at Macau for such a hefty profit that he could pay the entire hulk with it, then would load it with ceramics and silk, sail to Brazil, sell the cargo there to the wealthy farmers, buy from them sugar cane spirits, load them, sell them at Angola for a profit, use the profit to buy slaves, sail back to Brazil, sell the slaves, load sugar and other south american products, including Spanish silver piastras and then use them to either return to Asia or go towards Lisbon and load the ship with European cargo - guns, agricultural tools, etc.

They could hardly loose money.

Besides that, this was the hey day of gold mining in Brazil. The Crown would only use their best ships to carry the bullion towards Lisbon, so a stop over of a man of war at Rio de Janeiro, on it's way towards Europe was almost the rule, not the exception.

 

[Salvor6]

Alexandre, I hear the same excuse over and over, the ship was salvaged and there is nothing left. This reminds me of the Conseptcion that sank in 1641 on the silver banks. William Phipps salvaged the wreck 14 years later and got 20 mil pesos and then Burt Webber found the wreck in the 1970's and recovered $10 million, and then Tracy Bowden went back with "National Geographic" and got $10 mil more. So, there should be plenty left over for the treasure hunters to make a profit on the dos Anjos.

 

[Alexandre]

Peter,

The guy that "found" it says that he needs $300.000 to "locate it" (after all, it seems that he doesn´t know where it is yet) and some further $1.740.000 to "recover the loot".

If you want to spend that kind of money on a wreck that had no gold or silver aboard, that was salvaged for two years starting the very next month it went down, in front of a bustling city, in clear, shallow waters, and that hasn't been located yet.... man, be my guest.

 

[hung]

Hi Alexandre,

Sorry, I had not seen the other topic prior to this.

It's a pleasure talking to such an expert on portuguese ships as you.
Actually this discovery made by Galindo is a big surprise, because who was in reality searching for Rainha dos Anjos was Dennis Albanese, who you might know very well. He was on a schedule to find the ship as he had some investors money with a definite time period to do it...

This was in 2005-2006. So as I have not heard from him anymore, I presumed he failed even using lots of top and expensive gear investor money could rent.
Now Galindo found the wreck, when he was looking for a tug' propeller?? This is odd...

OK. Now my opinion.
It's extremely premature claiming he has found Rainha dos Anjos.
I say this based on the unbelievable amount of trash laying at the bottom of the bay. Also, there are known 48 shipwrecks spread over that area...

He only found some pieces of wood. No cannons, no porcelain or any more substantial evidence. And only this makes him sure it's that ship?
This is only the first chapter of the story...

 

[Salvor6]

Sounds like a scam to me. Lets see some proof!

 

[Alexandre]

He only found some pieces of wood. No cannons, no porcelain or any more substantial evidence. And only this makes him sure it's that ship?
This is only the first chapter of the story...

You are right on the money, Hung. Albanese has been doing that for at least 10 years:

http://veja.abril.com.br/050901/p_070.html

but we would be hard pressed to find the cannons: they were all salvaged.

If you want my personal opinion, he might have found a wreck. But, as you have so well said, with so many wreck there - that is after all, an harbour area, in use for the last 500 years - his claim to the Rainha dos Anjos is just wishful thinking, nothing else.