Questions about diving thread -

[ropesfish]

Maybe a thread for people to post questions about diving would be a good idea. We have lots of folks with lot of diving experience on this forum. Perhaps some would be willing to answer questions.

SADS & Agflit - since you guys are instructors with a lot of experience, I'll pose a question:
Wouldn't it be a good idea for dive shops or even dive boats to offer opportunities in the form of informal and comparatively inexpensive classes, open pool time or a boat trip to someplace calm and undemanding for new or rusty divers to just practice skills and/or get more comfortable with their gear?
As fast as people get certified these days, there are a lot of people out there that don't have a lot of confidence and/or competence in their skills. These are often the people I buy 'like-new' dive gear from on Craigslist for resale. They tell me that they got OW certified and then don't have the confidence in their abilities to go somewhere on their own and dive so they just don't go. They buy their equipment and then never get to the point where they feel like they know enough to go enough to learn enough to be comfortable diving on their own.
It seems like an opportunity to a) provide a needed service that might help new divers become active divers and b) make a few bucks for dive operators.
What do you guys think? Am I extrapolating a need that doesn't exist from my limited anecdotal information or is this something you guys have seen as well?

 

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[SADS 669]

Hi Bill, the need very much exists but dive shops historically wanna cookie cutter divers on the boat and any change in their stride pattern is viewed as "it's gonna cost more than it's worth".

Any and every person in your comment should get hold of a buddy with a pool and get in it and put fins on take em off mask clearing, reg out reg in etc etc.....

I would love to see dive shops doing this but most of them don't care enough once the gear went out the door, you even have to take your own tanks these days on the dive boat....sigh

 

[Boatlode]

I agree they have made the cert process too fast. When I got my basic cert in 1975, it was an 8-week course, one night a week. Each night had two hours of classroom, then three hours of pool work. At the end of the 8 weeks, there was a written exam and two open water check-out dives. When I hear about people getting their basic cert over a weekend, I wonder how much they don't know.

My AOW cert class was one classroom session and four qualification dives (drift, deep, wreck, and navigation).

 

[agflit]

Unfortunately, the dive "Industry"....and thats the problem right there.... as dumbed down the syllabus to literally a 10 year old's level....by design. IMO, the O/W cert process leaves you with just enough information and training to get in the water. I tell students it's simply..a license to start learning.

I'm at the shop woirking right now, but will address the subject more Bill...it's a great question that you've asked.


ag

 

[seekerGH]

You train the respective Cert Course, and that is where your liability begins/ends.

Go outside the prescriptive cert, and your liability soars. Aside from that, teaching the basic course to the general public is quite enough of a frustration, the 10 year old level, is a bit far too advanced for many taking the basic cert course. (many fail!)

It is all about liability, in in this business, it is far better to leave that to the big boyz. Train the presumptive method, and let that handle the liability.

6 dives or 6000 dives, the shop filing your tank does not care (or even know) when you present your card.

You cannot teach confidence, you can provide the basics, perhaps confidence comes with experience, and there are plenty of ops for that.

What you may be talking about are private lessons, and there are plenty of those, and from dive shops, just expect to pay, and rightly so.

Liability has a cost.

 

[SADS 669]

Great post, I live in the Bahamas and even here I keep people's written exams for at least 7 years for that reason.....I don't wanna loose my little plywood house cos some one forgot something I taught them....

 

[agflit]

Ok...got a few minutes here Bill so I'll re-address your original; question...


Yes...it WOULD be a great idea IF...A: someone can cover the costs involved and B: you can actually get divers to DO it. You know how expensive it is to run a dive boat for a day....not to mention wages, and incidentals.

What you said about new divers dropping out due to lack of confidance in their training and abilitys is a VERY significant problem within the industry. The instant gratification generations want it quick, cheap, and easy... 98% of O/W students enroll so they can check off a "bucket list" kinda thing. They have little motivation to excel, much less grow themselves as divers.

I try VERY hard...to institute a realistic expectation with new divers. I'm not always warm and fuzzy about it either. It takes time, committment, work and money to start the process of learning to become a "diver". I wish I had one of me for every student so I couldn't personally ride heard on em and mentor them to grow and excel...but thiers only 1 of me to go around.

I think Scuba is a dying entity...in the not so far future I can see it going the way of general aviation...an elitist sport for those with the time and financial ability to engage in it.

Best thing is..I hear they'll soon be a USB dongle that will allow air fills over the internet!! * cough cough*

Ag

 

[Boatlode]

I think Scuba is a dying entity...in the not so far future I can see it going the way of general aviation...an elitist sport for those with the time and financial ability to engage in it.

Only if the government decides to regulate it.

 

[ropesfish]

Wandering about the Interwebs after Old Man (Ed) started me wondering about the actual modern standards of dive certification agencies led me to these resources:
Like everything, I download this stuff and save it in my 40+ gigabytes of digital library.
Here is the 2015 PADI Instructor Manual in pdf form- http://www.scubadivinginstructors.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/2015-Padi-Instructor-Manual.pdf
PADI Key Course Standards: http://www.genesisdiving.com/KeyCourseStandards.pd
NASE Worldwide...I know nothing about this agency, but here is their Open Water Diver Manual: http://www.scubanase.com/pdf/ebook_owd.pdf
Good stuff that I think might be useful to some:
Diving Medicine for Scuba Divers 2015: Diving Medicine for SCUBA Divers
and the one most of us need and few will actually put to use- DIVING FITNESS! Fitness and Exercise Articles Just for SCUBA Divers

That's all for now.
Enjoy!

 

[Salvor6]

Ropesfish there are already courses out there to fill those needs. PADI has the Resort Course for non-divers to experience SCUBA in a pool or on a shallow open water dive. PADI also offers the refresher course for certified divers that have not made a dive in years. I was partners with the PADI Course Director (Ed Pemberton) that first offered the "weekend class" back in 1988. PADI officials came over from CA to observe our course and they approved it. I have been teaching that ever since.

 

[aquanut]

I have the NASE certification. They are an educational agency that teaches a broad range of underwater programs and professional fields.

 

[ropesfish]

Books!
Some recommended reading suggestions can't be a bad thing. Dive season is coming...well...for some it never really left.

1) "Scuba: A Practical Guide f[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]or the New Diver" & "Scuba: A Practical Guide to Advanced Level Training (2016)" by James A. Lapenta. Both of Lapenta's books are well worth reading. New divers ought to read the first and everyone should read the 2nd.
2) "Deep" by James Nestor A little different book, this one is about freediving and the mammalian dive reflex and much more. I recommend this highly.
3) "Almost Tranquillo" by A. Yarom Lee. A pretty entertaining look at the dive industry in Central America, where they do things a little differently. This is NOT a text, but you can learn a lot.
4) The Certified Diver's Handbook" by Clay Coleman (2004) A very good book for new divers to read and refer to.
5) "Scuba Confidential: An Insider's Guide to Becoming a Better Diver" by Simon Pridmore (2013) Excellent for anyone with a little experience or above. VERY good information.
Presently reading "Blue Mind, " by Wallace J. Nichols.
On deck: Recreational TriMix by Kevin Edwards & Scuba Professional by Pridmore.

 

[njcommercialdiver]

Boatlode, 1988, thats when i got my basic open water at 16, (YMCA, one instructor was padi and other was ymca certified) but kinda remember, it was like 10 or 12 weeks tho, a wensday night and 4 hrs, 2 in class, 2 in pool and 2 open water dives, a saturday and sunday in the local resevoir. when my wife and son took it in 2004, it was 6 weeks and twice a week then the 2 open water dives

 

[Boatlode]