questions about COA

[naturegirl]

Me again. I think I should have my Andice/calf creek point certified. Can ya'll share your experiences with this process? What about the new laser thing by David Walley? Snake oil, or advancement? Neanderthal Id'd my point as an Andice, I would love for it to be that. How important is it in identifiying it for certain? I imagine that won't happen, there maybe lot's of differing opinions. Matt, I took it to the Stillwater show yesterday with the intention of findingyou to show it to in person. I was kinda overwhelmed at the warm response it got from dealers, and my mind quit working. I didn't even ask anyone if you were there. Too shy. Anyway, they all considered it to be calf creek, which it is of course, but if it's also an andice, that's fairly important? Anyway what do ya'll think about COA's and if this has been discussed already maybe someone could provide a link.

The show was the first arrowhead show we have been too. My head is still spinning. The beauty of those things are too much to take in. And everyone was so nice too.

naturegirl

 

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[MANCHU]

Do ya have a pic ?

 

[The Grim Reaper]

Personally, I think COA's are are a load of crap. If you found the point and aren't going to sell it then you don't need a COA to tell you it's legit. If Matt told you it's an Andice, then you can take that to the bank. The man knows his artifacts and I would trust his opinion over any of the so called "experts" that issue COA's for profit.

So, unless you are looking to sell your piece then you really don't need a COA unless you just want one.

 

[11KBP]

Personally, I think COA's are are a load of crap. If you found the point and aren't going to sell it then you don't need a COA to tell you it's legit. If Matt told you it's an Andice, then you can take that to the bank. The man knows his artifacts and I would trust his opinion over any of the so called "experts" that issue COA's for profit.

So, unless you are looking to sell your piece then you really don't need a COA unless you just want one.

Naturegirl, I concur with DorkFish’s assessment. I can assure you no commercial authenticator can provide you with a more accurate opinion than the one you have already received.

11KBP

 

[badandy]

No coa! I thought they were the greatest thing when I first started buying, and then I decided I'd rather keep my $25 bucks and trust my own judgement. Do lots of homework and you'll learn to spot fakes from real without any real trouble. Stick to a close group of people you buy from and trust. You cant go wrong, and they will also help you in your buying with their opinions n so forth. Best of luck with your collecting and if you can post a few pics. of the point your talking about, it would help us on the board as well.

badandy

 

[uniface]

IMHO, competent authenticators are probably valuable resources -- especially when they confine themselves to rendering opinions on stuff they're familiar with.

That said, I've seen some mighty curious IDs from respected authenticators. Recently, "Folsom Endscraper" and "Folsom Core." Such attributions are nearly meaningless, since there was no characteristic "Folsom" variety of either.

 

[sidmind]

naturegirl, My wife and I also went to the Stillwater show, from about 12:00 to 2:00.

I agree with the others, I remember the forum thread about your andice point and remember what it looked like, now here is my opinion.

I would call yours a Calf Creek variety, Why because in my neck of the woods that is what I would call it. which is probably the same reason some of the guys at the show called it a calf creek. experts like Matt can define things better and narrow down a sub type

Is it technically an andice. I agree with Matt so Yes. the question is, are you happy with it? are you trying to sell it? if so the buyer will make his own decision regardless of what you call it.

I wouldn't spend the money if it was me. nor would I sell it.

 

[SoIll]

Show that bad boy again.

 

[Michael Karr]

NOT TO KNOCK ANYBODY,,BUT FORGET ABOUT THE PAPERS,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,MIKE

 

[sidmind]

here is a link to the original thread with photos.

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,227571.msg1656941.html#msg1656941

 

[naturegirl]

Thanks everyone, I wasn't sure how important a COA was, I appreciate your opinions, they seem to be consistant. I'm not going to sell it, not now. But we aren't rich and one never knows what life holds in store. Someday I might be forced to sell it, and I was wondering if I should authenticate it now. Of course a knowledegable buyer will form his own idea, regardless of what I say it is, I hadn't thought of it like that. I'm not questioning Matt, so much as I am curious about how an andice came to be found here. If they are finding more, that's fairly important? I want to call it an andice and not be challenged or corrected, like I was at the show. I think it's very exciting to have it, and I call it an andice. I look at all the pics I can, and intend to study both kinds more. I'm kicking myself now, because there I was with lots of calf creeks and possibly andices, and I didn't ask questions or look very close. Too shy, and overwhelmed at the attention it was getting. I understand pinpointing an exact Id intead of a general one. For example, in the winter we get up to a dozen different colored red-tail hawks here, and I'm not happy with just calling them a RT. I want to know if it's a dark morph adult? an intermediat juevy? Or best of all a Harlans. So it's the same thing with this point, if it's an andice, then it should be called a variety of calf creek, right? Just one of those little details that makes the world go round. Thanks again for your responses.

And yes Uniface, I would imagine there is a very proper place for a responsible COA, maybe just so it doesn't end up in a garage sale marked 25 cents someday.

naturegirl

 

[naturegirl]

Oh yeah, thanks sid for the link, we were at the show from about 1-3 I think. Hopefully I can make it to the Sandsprings show later this year.

ng

 

[Neanderthal]

I haven't been on the boards as much lately and I guess I missed this post. I really wish I could have been at the Stillwater show, but unfortunately couldn't make it. We were having an artifact auction at the museum on the same day. Hopefully next show there I can make. Which reminds me, I need to set a date for a fall show this year in Pryor.

Anyways, on to the Calf. They are correct is saying that it is Calf Creek, it IS. However, Andice is a more refined sub-type in the Calf Creek Complex. It's like arguing whether a Manx is a cat, or a Manx...umm, yeah. I believe I explained the defining characeristics of an Andice sometime on this board, but can again if you wish. As I posted earlier, for many years, people didn't believe that the Andice made it up this far. Even though it's associated with Jarrel Phase in Tx, and named for that locale, they can be found throughout the Calf Creek distribution range (although in exceedingly fewer numbers the further away you get). Years ago, Perino wouldn't paper an "Andice" that came from northern Oklahoma either, simply because of the location. However, after seeing many examples and with more knowledge on the subject, he too recognized they occurred up here. Most all collectors will simply call your point a Calf Creek, and that's correct - just not as accurate as can be. It's like a Table Rock pointed stem, they will ALWAYS call it a Gary. They WILL call your Edgewood, Creston (and similar) points Pelican Lake. They WILL call your Sorters Bluff and Gober points Scallorns. Be prepared for some of your McKeans to be tagged as paleo points, and your White Rivers will turn into Graham Cave or Dalton. If you try to verse them on the differences, chances are your words will fall on deaf ears. Just nod your head and move along, sometimes it's not worth the effort...lol

As far as COA'S go, I agree with Dork and everyone else. They're worth about as much as the paper they are written on. They're all opinions, some are far more studied than others. Some are absolutely humorous.

The key is to educate yourself so you won't have to rely on others. From your inquisitive posts, I think you are definitely on the right track.

I don't know when the Sand Springs show is. If you get a chance to go to the Springdale, Ark. show, you should try to. I talked to Danny the other day and I think he mentioned maybe having another show later this year?