Question-Underwater engineering

[itmaiden]

I was thinking again about the Gulf oil spill and like many of you, desperately want to come up with a solution. This a.m. I was envisioning some kind of substance that could be used underwater to build a seal around the pipe that would be both pliable underwater and dry and seal undewater. So far BP has been bringing various devices from the top surface into the water. But is there some way to use molten metal or some other substance and apply it to the outer surface of the leaking pipe, wrapping it around the pipe, then overlaying another strip of the same subtance on that one, slowing building out from the mouth of the pipe make each wrap a little more narrower, until a final wrap would have an opening so small that it could be sealed off with the same substance ?

Many of you have been in the military or have other good experience and skills, and wonder about what types of things that have been used for underwater ship repairs etc, that could maybe be used to seal this pipe.
(Besides shooting a small underwater rubber torpedo down it )

itmaiden

 

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[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI Luv: That tech is used in terminating pipes on tierra firma by welding. But, remember the fantastic pressures and temperatures that they are working with.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[pcolaboy]

Jose took the words right out of my mouth. The pressure of the oil/gas mixture coming out would take anything that is pliable and rip it to shreds.

My father is an engineer with one of the many oil field services companies contracted by BP to do the work around the failed Blow Out Preventer and says that BP has told them no solution they can come up with is too expensive. I truly feel like BP is trying but the political circus and media frenzy forming around the disaster would rather the mindless masses think otherwise.

 

[jeff k]

The two relief wells, if successful, could bring the pressure down to a manageable level.

 

[pcolaboy]

The two relief wells, if successful, could bring the pressure down to a manageable level.

Precisely Jeff, and the relief wells will be used to do a "kill well" procedure to permanently fill the original well. That is the only true permanent fix to this situation and there is no guarantee on how long the "kill well" process will take once they actually reach the main well.

 

[inletsurf]

"whack a mole"

 

[itmaiden]

Well, I was thinking of the possible explosions that could occur, but maybe it could also "seal the hole back up"..dangerous thinking I know.

I would like to know the actual pressure coming out of the pipe. When I watch the video, it reminds me of a very large water spring on a deceased friends property and he was estimating that his spring was putting out over 1 million gallons a day. The oil leak looks very similar in volume.

While they have been talking about drilling another hole nearby, they seem to be hesitating on that. From the decisions that led to the explosion until now, the impression is that BP wants to use any method that allows them to easily tap back into that oil later, and they do not want totally suppress this well.

itmaiden

HI Luv: That tech is used in terminating pipes on tierra firma by welding. But, remember the fantastic pressures and temperatures that they are working with.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[wwace]

Unfortunately this whole oil spill could have been shut down within 48 hrs of the platforms sinking. One small tactical nuke and poof, no more leaks. Apparently the Russians have used this procedure 3 or 4 times and at least one Navy Captain said it could be accomplished with a large amount of conventional explosives, so I believe we are at the mercy of incompetents in D.C. as I am positive they were fully briefed about these methods. It's almost as if our government wants this spill to be as disastrous as possible. The whole thing makes me sick.

 

[Martyn]

Unfortunately this whole oil spill could have been shut down within 48 hrs of the platforms sinking. One small tactical nuke and poof, no more leaks. Apparently the Russians have used this procedure 3 or 4 times and at least one Navy Captain said it could be accomplished with a large amount of conventional explosives, so I believe we are at the mercy of incompetents in D.C. as I am positive they were fully briefed about these methods. It's almost as if our government wants this spill to be as disastrous as possible. The whole thing makes me sick.

Have you been drinking or are you just insane? what makes you think using a nuke would either work or be better for the environment? apart from the obvious radiation what if it just made the hole bigger while creating a massive tidal wave and huge oil/gas explosion?

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

AND also have the possibility of actually enlarging the Oil pool 's exit - doubling or more, the escaping oil.

Hmm, maybe 2012 was meant to be done with an atomic explosion covering the ocean with a film of oil for a few years which will wipe out much of humanity.

Incidentally, remember the results of an atomic exposion may remain fluid for a few micro seconds after the initial pressure, so the oil pressure will simply blow a hole in the semi fluid debris as Pcola mentioned.

I was at the the first Atomic test at Bikini after WW-2, a bit impressive I must say.

Ladies & Gentlemen, we have a problem !



Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[wwace]

You do realize nukes come in different flavors and sizes? Something low yield, just large enough to turn the bottom of the ocean to glass for a couple of hundred square yards. The radiation damage would be far less than that the oil is going to do. As I understand it Bikini undersea is clean, there is still dangerous radiation on the islands but the ocean self cleans after a period of time. I had a very good friend who was there during testing and the radiation killed him, so yes I understand the dangers. As I mentioned the Russians have used this method and it works so why can't we? At the depth of 5 thousand feet where this well head is you could set one off and nobody would even know it. Evacuate surface craft for at least 20 mile radius and the seismologists would be the only people who had a clue

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Atomic_Demolition_Munition

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0529/energy-expert-nuke-oil-leak/

 

[OldGold74]

What about using geo bags with pumps to pump sand into them using the prssure of pumping and forcing the bags closer to the opening systematically closing the hole, "giant geo bags" ??

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

good morning Wace: You posted-->I had a very good friend who was there during testing and the radiation killed him,
**********

I am sorry to hear of your friend, Since I was only a passive, incidental observer, I was not exposed to any known radiation.

I have posted the instructions that they gave us for preserving 1/2 of Bikini in it's prior condition as much as possible.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[itmaiden]

Then the second angel sounded: And something like a great mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea, and a third of the sea became blood. And a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.

Then the third angel sounded: And a great star fell from heaven, burning like a torch, and it fell on a third of the rivers and on the springs of water. The name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the water became wormwood (bitter), and many men died from the water, because it was made bitter.

Christian Holy Bible, the book of Revelations, chapter 8: verses 8,9,10, and 11.

The oil spill is a small taste of what is to come.

itmaiden

AND also have the possibility of actually enlarging the Oil pool 's exit - doubling or more, the escaping oil.

Hmm, maybe 2012 was meant to be done with an atomic explosion covering the ocean with a film of oil for a few years which will wipe out much of humanity.

Incidentally, remember the results of an atomic exposion may remain fluid for a few micro seconds after the initial pressure, so the oil pressure will simply blow a hole in the semi fluid debris as Pcola mentioned.

I was at the the first Atomic test at Bikini after WW-2, a bit impressive I must say.

Ladies & Gentlemen, we have a problem !



Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Martyn]

Something low yield, just large enough to turn the bottom of the ocean to glass for a couple of hundred square yards.

I can see your point but what about the vast amount of water that would be turned to steam?[youtube=425,350]<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value=" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>[/youtube]

 

[wwace]

Something low yield, just large enough to turn the bottom of the ocean to glass for a couple of hundred square yards.

I can see your point but what about the vast amount of water that would be turned to steam?[youtube=425,350]<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value=" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>[/youtube]

Yield would be something low where if you were on the surface a mile or so away you would not be affected. The Soviets used more "force" than technique, we should be able to achieve the desired results with a finesse approach and the damage to wildlife would be minimal compared to what damage is being done now.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Good afternoon WWace One problem, how would we know that it wouldn't just fracture the cap rock into thousands of fissures, cracks, and faults through which the oil could escape in even a larger volume than presently?

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[wwace]

good morning Wace: You posted-->I had a very good friend who was there during testing and the radiation killed him,
**********

I am sorry to hear of your friend, Since I was only a passive, incidental observer, I was not exposed to any known radiation.

I have posted the instructions that they gave us for preserving 1/2 of Bikini in it's prior condition as much as possible.

Don Jose de La Mancha

Don Jose, I respect your generation's accomplishments more than any other. You sir are one of the true heroes of freedom earned in the last century. My friend was held in the testing areas for seven years before being allowed to return to the States. Cancer caused by radiation exposure took his life in 1981. Your generation knew how to get things done, the kids today have not a clue of the accomplishments and hardship endured and overcame by their predecessors. My thanks and Good Day Sir.
D

 

[wwace]

Good afternoon WWace One problem, how would we know that it wouldn't just fracture the cap rock into thousands of fissures, cracks, and faults through which the oil could escape in even a larger volume than presently?

Don Jose de La Mancha

As I am not a physicist I cannot answer this, however, some seepage would seem minor compared to the disaster we have today. I think by setting off the weapon several thousand feet below the sea bed near the well casing would equalize the pressure of material above the oil/gas source. I have been involved and monitoring the spill since the first week when I offered assistance. I receive constant email updates from the National Incident Commander and watch the briefings. The oil pool is under the pressure of 30,000 psi + or -. Several times that at sea floor, so it would be necessary to create a large enough disturbance to seal and overcome the pressure from the wellhead. The temperatures created by nuclear weapons are sufficient to seal the well, but care must be employed to engineer the yield and placement for the best chance of success. We have tons of data from undersea and underground testing, this was rocket science 50 years ago, today it is a tool that used correctly would have prevented 99% of this massive ecological disaster.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

good morning WWace: I thank you for the unearned compliment.. As I have mentioned, I have no doubt that people like you, and the salvors in here are quite capable of filling in our shoes, or more.

As for the pressures, I am quite sure that most have no idea just what that represents. however I am sure that most in here can calculate what 5000 ft of H2o represents. Shall we crudely say 2000 psi . So 30,000 psi is wow !

Now I wonder just what is creating those pressures? What happens after these pressures are relieved by depletion, do we have a simple void or readjusting of the mantle - massive earthquake?

It all tends to remind us that what we assume as a solid really isn't.

When I worked as an assayer, I quickly found out that under pressure and high temp, rocks are just another form of a liquid, and to think of them that way..
.
A sort of durned if we don't, and durned if we do situation. For the present, we do need that oil, and more, regardless..

Don Jose de La Mancha