Question on a new roof

[onfire]

I decided to replace my 12 year old roof. I gave a call to a large contractor in the area. Guy pulls up in a new 2013 Lincoln and say's we need to have your wife present I say "What do think my wife knows about a roof, except the color"?) Anyway after about a hour of telling me how great his business is he hit;s me with the price. Now I know how many Sq.'s are up there (38) and it's a walk on. He' come's up with 38,000. By the time he leaves the best he can do is 23,000 I call another one the next day he's at 28,000 got him down to 18,500.
I'm thinking I put that roof on for 7500 (Don't and won't do them again.) Last guy I call I show him the two quotes (Blacked out price) He says same material, ice and water shield, 6 nails per shingle, new ridge vent, same guaranty, clean up. 8500. Now my question how can these guy's be so far apart in price? All are insured.

Maybe it was the Lincoln?

 

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[Dave44]

WOW, I am In the wrong state! Do you have some weird Enviro laws there or something? You have definitely encountered some rip off artists, Dang I hate those guys.

Architectural shingles, tear off haul away approx 8500- 10,000$.( good ones)

I don't know about slate.

Standing seam aluminum, Commercial grade Approx 28K.

Sounds like you are trying for hand bent, standing seam copper on the first one?

 

[kazcoro]

Professional roofer here. Sounds like you are getting gouged. Overlay shingles? About 7 k. Material is going to be 5-6. What part of the country are you in? 28k? That is out of this world. Like Dave said, that is copper price there. Full gutters and downspouts, too. Maybe throw in a complete re-deck while they are at it.

 

[kazcoro]

Take the 8500. Sounds like it is the reasonable one. Get the scope of work in the contract.

 

[onfire]

I wish it was copper, but this is regular Architectural shingles bid. with w galvanized type valleys Can't believe they show you all those satisfied customers on their little computer. These are large co.'s with great rating's.
They keep telling you if your house is not properly vented your guarantee is nil. I have ridge vents and totally insulated.
Actually a 50 year guarantee would take me in the way over the hill age I'd be lucky to be able to look up at that time.
Thanks guy's just can't believe these guy's are getting work.

 

[Dave44]

PT Barnum Contractors. I had one contractor confide in me that he could overcharge every customer in the area because it was that populated. I was aghast, never talked to him again, and warned everyone I could.

 

[Frankn]

When I built my house about 13 years ago, I never wanted to have to get on the roof again so I installed white enamel coated aluminum strips. I used SS screws with neoprene washers and I used urethane glue where panels overlapped. It's good as new and reflects the heat away in the summer. It has 8" of miramer plastic inclosed insulation under it. Frank...

 

[bevo]

$35-$40 a square up here in the nw. A square is 10'x10'. Not sure if that includes tear off.

 

[hvacker]

Because I have been a contractor I can tell you that for some it's a license to steel. Contracting has always been dicey but now they hold seminars on how to up the price. An example in HVAC service companies switching from time and material charges to flat rate. While flat rate can be fair most of the seminars base their prices on $120-$150/hr. Now we know they don't pay their techs anywhere near that number. It's a system to improve income. Nothing wrong with profit but where does profit become a scam. If you ask a tech from a flat rate company how much of the price is labor, they won't know. The labor amount is hidden in the price book. Also hidden is the parts markup.
Sounds like the guy in the Lincoln added an xtra zero. Those types depend on customers being uninformed about everything construction. The idea is for him to appear successful even though the Lincoln could be a rental/lease.
Contractors will throw out a huge price thinking that they will get some of the bids overall. There is a mistake to take the low price too. For the most part labor for most companies will be close to the same as will materials. There can be small differences but over the job not enough to account for the differences you see in your bids.

 

[Dave44]

I have friends in your line of work hvacker. Did you get out of the business during the downturn? I had heard that White Sands base was picking up for a while and helping out. Has it slowed down again?

What you are saying about the high price was very prevailent a few years ago. I had hoped the downturn would help weed out those people.

 

[onfire]

It was funny this guy pressed the fact they would make sure eveyrthing was cleaned up after the job. I said "See that gun rack in the back of the garage I'm sure I have nothing to worry about"

 

[davest]

It was funny this guy pressed the fact they would make sure eveyrthing was cleaned up after the job. I said "See that gun rack in the back of the garage I'm sure I have nothing to worry about"

or you would have done what? Hit him with your gun rack? Or did you actually threaten him with using a gun if the job wasn't cleaned up?

Yep, I'm sure you're a responsible gun owner that would NEVER< EVER joke about something like that. Sheeesh.

 

[onfire]

or you would have done what? Hit him with your gun rack? Or did you actually threaten him with using a gun if the job wasn't cleaned up?

Yep, I'm sure you're a responsible gun owner that would NEVER< EVER joke about something like that. Sheeesh.

.
Who said I was a responsible because today I'm impersonating a lib. . I could eat a bowl of alphabet soup and cr ap out a better come back then yours

 

[Backbacon]

.
Who said I was a responsible because today I'm impersonating a lib. . I could eat a bowl of alphabet soup and cr ap out a better come back then yours

I would implore you to start eating some of that soup and start the crap session then, please? I for one am sure that the thousands of members of Tnet that are browsing this Forum from around the World can't wait to hear them....

 

[onfire]

I would implore you to start eating some of that soup and start the crap session then, please? I for one am sure that the thousands of members of Tnet that are browsing this Forum from around the World can't wait to hear them....

I tried just for you BB but I found out there were there were 6 letters missing to answer you I'm sure you'll figure it out.

 

[hvacker]

I have friends in your line of work hvacker. Did you get out of the business during the downturn? I had heard that White Sands base was picking up for a while and helping out. Has it slowed down again?

What you are saying about the high price was very prevailent a few years ago. I had hoped the downturn would help weed out those people.

I had the opportunity to leave my business a bit before the downturn. Not that I saw it coming, it was just the time. Government work in NM is sometimes the only work or so it seems. Withe two National Labs and their spinoffs and three air bases, white sands etc it can represent a lot of work. Also the Gov pays it
s bills. For a time gov work was 60% of my work.
The systems of profit that are being sold in contracting aren't going anywhere. Too profitable. These systems can also be seen in other businesses. Like gong to a restaurant and the waiter asks right away "And what wine will you be having with your dinner?" What desert? Appetizer? It
s all formulated to raise the profit level.
Contractors can pay for a seminar, buy the package, get the books, forms, employee training, advertising and everything that goes to produce an image.
Like many flim flam producers they will try to hook a contractor with the old reliable, greed. Saying things like "See how much a doctor makes, You should too" or "You should be the one driving that big PU." In the end they are selling greed.
The downturn hurt mostly those that didn't have good business fundamentals and not just the bad guys.

 

[davest]

I had the opportunity to leave my business a bit before the downturn. Not that I saw it coming, it was just the time. Government work in NM is sometimes the only work or so it seems. Withe two National Labs and their spinoffs and three air bases, white sands etc it can represent a lot of work. Also the Gov pays it
s bills. For a time gov work was 60% of my work.
The systems of profit that are being sold in contracting aren't going anywhere. Too profitable. These systems can also be seen in other businesses. Like gong to a restaurant and the waiter asks right away "And what wine will you be having with your dinner?" What desert? Appetizer? It
s all formulated to raise the profit level.
Contractors can pay for a seminar, buy the package, get the books, forms, employee training, advertising and everything that goes to produce an image.
Like many flim flam producers they will try to hook a contractor with the old reliable, greed. Saying things like "See how much a doctor makes, You should too" or "You should be the one driving that big PU." In the end they are selling greed.
The downturn hurt mostly those that didn't have good business fundamentals and not just the bad guys.

Now wait a minute here. Are you trying to tell us that the same government that should let businesses succeed or fail on their own actually helps people succeed by providing work?

Is this the same government that is wanting to take everybodys guns and turn them into U.N. minions? What the heck in tarnation are they thinking?.

BTW, why are you guys complaining about the great capitalist system in place here. People can charge what they want, whenever they want. The fossil fuel companies have been doing it for years. The electric company monopolies have also been up there doing the same. If a company owner wants to make millions a year, he should be allowed.


Right? As long as he's not defrauding anyone and the work performed is up to code and passes inspection. Right?

 

[onfire]

Quote:
BTW, why are you guys complaining about the great capitalist system in place here. People can charge what they want, whenever they want. The fossil fuel companies have been doing it for years. The electric company monopolies have also been up there doing the same. If a company owner wants to make millions a year, he should be allowed.

Davset. I'm trying to understand this statement compared to roofing? Are the Electric co's not regulated by politicians? If a rate hike is needed don't they have to have it justified. The new generation of goofs that think a windmill will rid us of pollution increases your rates because of cost to build them.
Also with all those dead beats that don't pay their bills are passed down in rate hikes to those that do.
Oil controlled by supply and demand? Take away the tax's and the environmental regulations (Winter blend, summer blend, additives all controled by the same Gov. you talk about.
Now if you ck. Roofing has stayed somewhat the same price except for the price of delivery (Fuel) I'm asking why are these co's are so far apart in price.

Average price for a good shingle varies from 110.00$ to 200.00$ per Sq. mine was 101.00$ on sale, that's aprox. 38 hundred ice and water 350.00$ ridge vents, valley's dumpster.1000.00$ 51hundred total. that leaves 34 hundred profit. They all say 1 day they will be gone.
The other's were at aprox. 30thousand for a day's work (first bid)
My statement about the gun rack was a joke. You must be a lawyer by trade not to get it.

 

[gord]

Quote:

Davset. I'm trying to understand this statement compared to roofing? Are the Electric co's not regulated by politicians?

You justify things to politicians by the amount of $$$ you provide as grift.

 

[hvacker]

Now wait a minute here. Are you trying to tell us that the same government that should let businesses succeed or fail on their own actually helps people succeed by providing work?

Is this the same government that is wanting to take everybodys guns and turn them into U.N. minions? What the heck in tarnation are they thinking?.

BTW, why are you guys complaining about the great capitalist system in place here. People can charge what they want, whenever they want. The fossil fuel companies have been doing it for years. The electric company monopolies have also been up there doing the same. If a company owner wants to make millions a year, he should be allowed.


Right? As long as he's not defrauding anyone and the work performed is up to code and passes inspection. Right?

What? Of course the Gov creates work. I LMAO when during the election when Romney said " the government doesn't create jobs." What world does he live in. The only Gov agencies that make money are the IRS and the Post office. Why the PO is supposed to make a profit confuses me as no one else in Government does.
I don't know of any ideas of giving our guns to the UN. But then I don't bother myself with political radio/tv. Truth is hard enough to come by w/o leveraging nut cases.
Business law is predicated on fairness. The idea that a roofing contractor knows how much a roof costs and a customer that doesn't. So our government attempts to level it somewhat with consumer information. Most companies are self regulated by competition. Gas stations post their prices in the street so you can compare. Roofers don't advertise pricing. You won't see an add stating $/square. So a consumer is stuck with the BBB, rumors about companies, gut feelings. Before the internet there was little a consumer could find out about.
Politicians like R, Regan had this idea based on an idealized world that the "system" was self healing and any business that got wrong, the system would put right all by itself w/o gov interfering. Not in my world. In my world flim flam is relevant and prospering. Those businesses that $crew consumers find just enough to get by to live to defraud anther day. My answer wouldn't not be to create law to shut them down. It would be to kill them with information. I could see a gov publication called "Rules of Thumb" on just what competitive pricing is for stuff based on area and fair marked pricing.
Part of government responsibility is defense of it's people. I see price information as falling under defense. History has shown the one to be feared is the one that has their hand in your pocket.
BTW those that defend "Our free market system" Don't speak the truth. You wouldn't want to live in one. Just take a trip back to the 1800's when capitalists ruled the country even more than now. Economic slavery. They had this country under their thumb and weren't going to quit until they had it all.