Question about approaching property owners about hunting for a cache .

[Boonieguy]

And how recommendations on how to split the finds and maybe a liability waiver ?

 

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[ticndig]

I'd just ask to hunt first , tell them you like to look for old pennies, they may not want anything you find.

 

[Mackaydon]

I wouldn't start to dig before having a contract that would cover (1)permission, (2) duration, (3) list of probably finds--keep it minimal, (4) equipment that will be used, (5) Split, (6) process to determine values, (7) liability insurance in the event you damage his property and (8) self-insurance showing that you are insured against any injury you cause to yourself or anyone else.

I list all these items based on experience. When your valuable cache is discovered, these items need to be already agreed to in a contract, otherwise, costs and time-consuming litigation may follow.
Don in SoCal

 

[Boonieguy]

I wouldn't start to dig before having a contract that would cover (1)permission, (2) duration, (3) list of probably finds--keep it minimal, (4) equipment that will be used, (5) Split, (6) process to determine values, (7) liability insurance in the event you damage his property and (8) self-insurance showing that you are insured against any injury you cause to yourself or anyone else.

I list all these items based on experience. When your valuable cache is discovered, these items need to be already agreed to in a contract, otherwise, costs and time-consuming litigation may follow.
Don in SoCal

It’s documented that apparently dozens of people searched for this particular cache back in the 1800’s with the original owners son’s permission. Potentially a 100 oz of gold . It’s planted in corn right now .
I know people get weird when it comes to money. The guy who owns it is a fairly well off farmer . He may just laugh about us being interested as it is

 

[rennes]

Get an attorney to write the contract using the treasure trove laws in your city, county, or state. If on Federal National Forest a permit can be obtained if you can convince them you are not a psycho.
No matter what document you get, take it to the county courthouse and have it recorded. It wouldn't hurt to have both parties appear before a notary public.
Before, you do all of that, go meet with the PO and explain what you will search for. The first reaction will be are you nuts, after you convince him you have fully researched the clues, but still may be wrong but you need to check it out. He will probably not allow you to hunt alone, but there are ways to get around that If you find something highly likely to be what you are looking for. you did have on your earphones-right? he will not know it, then you go, depending on the size of the property, 100 yd or so away and get excited over another place. That will decoy him from the right spot. It's then you have him go get the paperwork. if he is honest he won't go dig the spot, if he's not, usually the case, he will dig. The most important thing is to determine if he is a sentinel before you approach him. If he's lived on the place for 40 years he just might be. Check the records to see if he has any connections with big politicians, high rank masons, and his normal routine. If he is one, he's required to check the cache frequently unless he can see it from his windows, not uncommon. Look for a worn trail directly from the house to the area of concern.
Another thing don't guess where you think it is.....KNOW. You can know this even if you've never detected on the place if you have the knowledge to do it.
BB HB

 

[Ocean7]

you can use this Search & Salvage Agreement, offer them 50% and that will usually do the trick, unless there is no way they'll allow you to hunt for cache anyway. This covers releasing the Landowner from all liability. It's a win-win agreement and you do all the work. I've had multiple landowners sign this very agreement. Put it in writing, no hand shake deals. HH!

Search & Salvage Agreement​

Search and Salvage Agreement

This agreement is entered between _______________________, hereafter known as the Salvors and _____________________ , hereafter known as the Landowner, for the purpose of permitting the Salvors to enter and search on the property of the Landowner.

In consideration of permitting the Salvors to enter and search the property of the Landowner, of the division of finds between the parties as provided by this contract, of the release of the Landowner’s liability as provided in this contract, and of the labor, time, skill and investment of equipment required by the Salvors in searching for and recovering finds on the owner’s property, the parties agree as follows:

1. That the Salvors shall bear all expenses incident to the search without deduction from the value of the finds before any division between the parties pursuant to Paragraph 4.

2. That any and all items including specie and bullion are acquired and retained by the salvers. This includes, but is not limited to, jewelry, relics, artifacts, flatware, utensils, papers, maps, tokens and books.

3. That the Salvors notify and invite the Landowner to participate in the actual recovery of any ‘known’ pursued cache. That the Landowner shall assist the Salvors in the recovery of said cache in every manner possible.

4. That recovery of any cache be divided as follows: 50% to the Salvors and 50% to the Landowner. That this division shall be made as follows: All coins shall be placed with the obverse side down and mixed to everyone’s satisfaction. Then each participant shall remove a specified number of coins, each in turn, beginning with the Landowner and without seeing the date of the coin. This is to eliminate searching for the more desirable coins. That bullion be divided in a like manner. In the case of an odd number of castings, the remaining items be divided at the site by the Salvers cutting the item into a proportionate size and the Landowner choosing the first lot.

5. That both the Salvors and the Landowner agree that the find shall remain undisclosed to any persons other than immediate families of the participants. Furthermore, the recovery shall not be disclosed to any member of the media in any manner.

6. That the Salvors agree to release the Landowner from all liability for personal injury or property damage that the Salvors may suffer as a result of the Landowner’s negligence while on the Landowner’s property only during times of such search and recovery. This release shall be binding and forever discharge the Landowner, his/her, its heirs, executors, and administrators, from all actions, causes of action, claims, and demands for, upon, or by reason of any damage, loss, injury, or suffering which the Salvors may sustain while searching or making a recovery on the Landowner’s property.

7. That for the purposes of this contract the following terms are defined:

"Cache" is any concealed, lost, or buried gold or silver in bullion form or gold or silver coins if such coins number 10 (ten) or more and are found together at the same time and the same place, but this definition shall not include groups or individual items of jewelry, whether or not found with other items subject to this definition;

"Relics and Artifacts" include but are not limited to any weapons, projectiles, or items such as eating utensils, or other items not otherwise expressly covered by this agreement, regardless of age or value;

"Jewelry" includes only items, when made of gold or silver, such as rings, necklaces, medallions, and similar items.

8. That this agreement may be terminated upon written notice by either party.

9. That this is the entire agreement between the parties.

_______________________________________(signature of Salvor)

_______________________________________(signature of Salvor)

_______________________________________(signature of Salvor)

_______________________________________(signature of Landowner)

_______________________________________(signature of Landowner)

_______________________________________(date)

_______________________________________(Property)

 

[jeff of pa]

I agree with ticndig
Contracts could scare people off.
unless they know it is there & you know it's there and exactly where it is, and plan to use it as a bargaining chip.

Or they Bring up the idea of a Contract

I've only Signed Contracts when requested by the landowner.
which are usually because of their fear of lawsuits for injuries.

I Believe in Gentlemen's Agreements

 

[pepperj]

Get an attorney to write the contract using the treasure trove laws in your city, county, or state. If on Federal National Forest a permit can be obtained if you can convince them you are not a psycho.
No matter what document you get, take it to the county courthouse and have it recorded. It wouldn't hurt to have both parties appear before a notary public.
Before, you do all of that, go meet with the PO and explain what you will search for. The first reaction will be are you nuts, after you convince him you have fully researched the clues, but still may be wrong but you need to check it out. He will probably not allow you to hunt alone, but there are ways to get around that If you find something highly likely to be what you are looking for. you did have on your earphones-right? he will not know it, then you go, depending on the size of the property, 100 yd or so away and get excited over another place. That will decoy him from the right spot. It's then you have him go get the paperwork. if he is honest he won't go dig the spot, if he's not, usually the case, he will dig. The most important thing is to determine if he is a sentinel before you approach him. If he's lived on the place for 40 years he just might be. Check the records to see if he has any connections with big politicians, high rank masons, and his normal routine. If he is one, he's required to check the cache frequently unless he can see it from his windows, not uncommon. Look for a worn trail directly from the house to the area of concern.
Another thing don't guess where you think it is.....KNOW. You can know this even if you've never detected on the place if you have the knowledge to do it.
BB HB

I use basic honesty nothing more, nothing less.
Pay the landowners 50% of gold value in cash.
That's 100% profit for them.

Asking a busy farmer to go to a court house to sign papers. 🤣
Not being rude but 🤣
Do the K.I.S.S. method when it comes to asking.

Total honesty is the best policy.
I have well over 10,000 acres of permissions to hunt on.
Ranging from a few acres to a 1000+acres.
Here is a classic interaction between me and a permission.

If I find gold I'll be sure to be paying you half of the value Peter.

Reply:
Jim if you find gold you take your wife out and buy yourself a nice pizza.

Sometimes money isn't everything.

Best of luck on getting the permission.

 

[rennes]

I use basic honesty nothing more, nothing less.
Pay the landowners 50% of gold value in cash.
That's 100% profit for them.

Asking a busy farmer to go to a court house to sign papers. 🤣
Not being rude but 🤣
Do the K.I.S.S. method when it comes to asking.

Total honesty is the best policy.
I have well over 10,000 acres of permissions to hunt on.
Ranging from a few acres to a 1000+acres.
Here is a classic interaction between me and a permission.

If I find gold I'll be sure to be paying you half of the value Peter.

Reply:
Jim if you find gold you take your wife out and buy yourself a nice pizza.

Sometimes money isn't everything.

Best of luck on getting the permission.

Dr. Pepper, I can tell you have no experience with landowners when it comes to a large cache, its different when you ask for permission to detect. Few of them will not want to be on site when the digging is being done. Once i worked with two people who owned a full section of land, we made a verbal agreement for checking for clues in order to determine if any treasure was on in the area. I used my standard contract and said I would start to work when I completed another hunt a few miles south of that ranch. They lived far from the property and said I could only work there while they were with me. Every time we set a date, when I arrived they had a crowd of friends for a treasure hunt. I tried working with 10-12 of them following me every step. I did find enough to feel there was some kind of treasure in the area. I didn't detect anything but faked a really hot spot in two places. I said let's get the backhoe guy who would dig it if we found it, he only lived 5 miles away and it was around noon. They owners said they had to go and would call me when they wanted to dig. they finally called and I made another 400 mile trip to check the spots to see them dug, they were and the owners were mad because nothing was found. With a sealed and recorded contract that could not happen, if it did I would have been able to sue them for breach. Anyway the treasure was not on that land but 22 miles away and we did find that.
every time you can count on the landowner getting eager. I don't think you have seen a pot of gold about to be divided, I really hope you do, quite an experience and be sure to take your knife or gun because they will have theirs. Once the gold is seen dug up they are paranoid that everyone around them knows the secret and is about to steal it.
Besides once you inform anyone of a treasure in the area it takes about three days until everyone knows it. A confidential clause in the contract will prevent that most times.
Perhaps the best advice is be sure you know you are close to a cache. Don't Guess! Sometimes we all have to admit we are not perfect.
HBBB

 

[Limitool]

I just smile when I see questions or threads like this. This reminds me of that guy I believe from FL. long ago who wanted to contact EVERYBODY before he dug each site... some dogman or something like it. He's banned I believe now...?

Nobody can "KNOW" of a cache until you discover it... period. The only way you'd know is if YOU put it there. This reminds me of when I asked the owner of a LARGE patch of wooded only area behind my home if I could small game hunt, drive ATV and just MD around. He said "sure". I asked him if he had any caves on his property? He said NONE as he's explored it 100%. Ok then....?

If your supposed cache is out in a corn field and your LOOKING for it... why would you announce it to the land owner or anyone. Sounds like it's very rural as my area was. If the landowner knew of its existence he wouldn't need help from you or anyone. Why not just ask to MD and see. Then if your conscious dictates upon finding.... THEN INQUIRE....!

I just never would jump into the unknown without knowing first let alone tell others who have no knowledge. I addressed this long ago with an old thread.... it was interesting on the comments.

 

[MiddenMonster]

Nobody can "KNOW" of a cache until you discover it... period. The only way you'd know is if YOU put it there.

Absolute rubbish! I was hiding in the weeds watching you as you buried that cache last week, so I know it's there. Or at least was there...

 

[Limitool]

Absolute rubbish! I was hiding in the weeds watching you as you buried that cache last week, so I know it's there. Or at least was there...

Maybe...? If I buried one. But somebody in the mid 1800's did and somebody found it. But that's the kind of stuff MOST people don't talk about or document. Nor do most folks I hope.

 

[pepperj]

Dr. Pepper, I can tell you have no experience with landowners when it comes to a large cache, its different when you ask for permission to detect. Few of them will not want to be on site when the digging is being done. Once i worked with two people who owned a full section of land, we made a verbal agreement for checking for clues in order to determine if any treasure was on in the area. I used my standard contract and said I would start to work when I completed another hunt a few miles south of that ranch. They lived far from the property and said I could only work there while they were with me. Every time we set a date, when I arrived they had a crowd of friends for a treasure hunt. I tried working with 10-12 of them following me every step. I did find enough to feel there was some kind of treasure in the area. I didn't detect anything but faked a really hot spot in two places. I said let's get the backhoe guy who would dig it if we found it, he only lived 5 miles away and it was around noon. They owners said they had to go and would call me when they wanted to dig. they finally called and I made another 400 mile trip to check the spots to see them dug, they were and the owners were mad because nothing was found. With a sealed and recorded contract that could not happen, if it did I would have been able to sue them for breach. Anyway the treasure was not on that land but 22 miles away and we did find that.
every time you can count on the landowner getting eager. I don't think you have seen a pot of gold about to be divided, I really hope you do, quite an experience and be sure to take your knife or gun because they will have theirs. Once the gold is seen dug up they are paranoid that everyone around them knows the secret and is about to steal it.
Besides once you inform anyone of a treasure in the area it takes about three days until everyone knows it. A confidential clause in the contract will prevent that most times.
Perhaps the best advice is be sure you know you are close to a cache. Don't Guess! Sometimes we all have to admit we are not perfect.
HBBB

"I didn't detect anything but faked a really hot spot in two places."

I guess you do things differently in life.
When lies, fake, starts, basically there's no trust.

I don't cache hunt, I detect.
I chased a silver cache for some years when I was young.
One nearly blind neighbor blamed the other for digging it up and stealing it.
Chasing tales of rainbows.

If a hoard, jar, cache was to be found.
Nobody's business except for a smiling permission.
K.I.S.S.

 

[Limitool]

Pepper... I totally believe in KISS mode and live by it.

 

[Curtis]

Like Chuck Christianson said (and he found several great caches) when the gold comes out the guns come out...so be careful!