Property pin mystery

[Midden-marauder]

I don't know if we have any surveyors active here but I have discovered something strange on our property. The land we live on is about an acre give or take, I've seen the old survey maps from the original deed from the 50s and it doesn't appear that much has changed in terms of the property layout. Prior to the subdivision of the area it was part of a larger property which based on a 1935 aerial photo was essentially a wooded spot with no visible structures surrounded by agricultural lands. I've found now 3 L shaped pins countersunk about 4" smack in the middle of the property with no apparent relationship to the corners of the original survey nor indeed with any obvious relationship to the existing structures. When property surveys are done are additional points marked beyond the corners of the property? I've found other pins in locations corresponding to current survey info based on Google maps but these other pins I've found don't seem connected to that survey. The ones I've found are within 20' of each other in a roughly rectangular arrangement, there may be more I haven't found yet but it's a right head scratcher. Anyone here who could possibly shed some light on this? I've been researching this piece of land fairly deeply but there's no apparent link to this discovery, these old iron pins don't seem to relate to anything I've found.

 

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[Robot]

Hi Midden-marauder
What I believe has happed, is your property was once zoned differently than what was rezoned for you today.
You stated that the old pins you found appear to be older ones.
You may check with your area property management department to confirm?

 

[Midden-marauder]

Hi Midden-marauder
What I believe has happed, is your property was once zoned differently than what was rezoned for you today.
You stated that the old pins you found appear to be older ones.
You may check with your area property management department to confirm?

Thanks man. This area is intriguing because it has strong history dating back to the late 1600s, early 1700s so I'm sinking my teeth into some juicy history. It probably was zoned differently once upon a time, it's an old village that was subdivided back in the 40s it would appear. The maps I've looked at don't point to anything here that would relate to said pins so it's strange. I may end up hitting the archives and any old records that might give more info. They're in relatively close proximity to each other so if they represent old property lines it must have been oddly shaped. I've also found what appears an backfilled old well head that is just inside the lines formed by the pin arrangement which was an eyebrow raiser but not so strange considering that this plot was occupied by another owner back in the late 40s. The oldest map of this area doesn't appear to have any corresponding boundaries to the mystery pins as well. It's quite interesting actually

 

[releventchair]

Not familier with L shaped pins used as property monuments.
Reads more like hold downs for something.

 

[Bucket Lister]

I don't know if we have any surveyors active here but I have discovered something strange on our property. The land we live on is about an acre give or take, I've seen the old survey maps from the original deed from the 50s and it doesn't appear that much has changed in terms of the property layout. Prior to the subdivision of the area it was part of a larger property which based on a 1935 aerial photo was essentially a wooded spot with no visible structures surrounded by agricultural lands. I've found now 3 L shaped pins countersunk about 4" smack in the middle of the property with no apparent relationship to the corners of the original survey nor indeed with any obvious relationship to the existing structures.

Picture? I'm having trouble visualizing.

When property surveys are done are additional points marked beyond the corners of the property?

Sometimes.

I've found other pins in locations corresponding to current survey info based on Google maps but these other pins I've found don't seem connected to that survey. The ones I've found are within 20' of each other in a roughly rectangular arrangement, there may be more I haven't found yet but it's a right head scratcher. Anyone here who could possibly shed some light on this? I've been researching this piece of land fairly deeply but there's no apparent link to this discovery, these old iron pins don't seem to relate to anything I've found.

Is it possible they lay out the lines of a building or other structure that was never built?

 

[Midden-marauder]

Picture? I'm having trouble visualizing.


Sometimes.

Is it possible they lay out the lines of a building or other structure that was never built?

Picture of the pins? I'll have to go dig them back up to show them which should be easy enough. There's actually a fourth pin of the exact same type up at the entry to our driveway that's visible very plainly on the surface so I'll snap you a shot of it here soon. It's like this L shaped, right angle rebar or kinda fence post thing. I'm wondering if there may have been other structures at one point but again, the oldest photo I have is a birds eye view of the village as it was in 1935, where our house and whole block actually didn't even exist at that time, it was a wooded area surrounded by farms. If there was another structure there it's certainly not visible in the shot. The original plot, as laid out in the deed, was very different and covered a much larger area, I find no direct connection however to these pins and the dimensions of the old plot. I'm going to search around that area of the yard more to see if any more are there.

 

[Midden-marauder]

Not familier with L shaped pins used as property monuments.
Reads more like hold downs for something.

Property pins are sometimes made of whatever random materials were available at the time. It's possible this is some remains of something else built on the site except there's another such pin right up at the front marking the edge of where the driveway is, I'll get some pics soon for posterity and this thread. All the pins found MDing were at the same depth, 4". It's a bit strange because of their location relative to any existing map features I've looked at makes no sense and that's the grand mystery. I'm grasping at straws asking on this site but maybe someone knows a piece of info I don't that could help unravel this one. Digging up relics is cool, digging up history is even more cool

 

[releventchair]

Property pins are sometimes made of whatever random materials were available at the time. It's possible this is some remains of something else built on the site except there's another such pin right up at the front marking the edge of where the driveway is, I'll get some pics soon for posterity and this thread. All the pins found MDing were at the same depth, 4". It's a bit strange because of their location relative to any existing map features I've looked at makes no sense and that's the grand mystery. I'm grasping at straws asking on this site but maybe someone knows a piece of info I don't that could help unravel this one. Digging up relics is cool, digging up history is even more cool

Corner marking iron found not from modern surveyors has been varied in my property corner locating hunts.
T-posts. A rotted bicycle. Shattered top post, maybe former t-post.

 

[Midden-marauder]

Corner marking iron found not from modern surveyors has been varied in my property corner locating hunts.
T-posts. A rotted bicycle. Shattered top post, maybe former t-post.

I think I've read somewhere about an old bicycle being used on some forum somewhere fairly recently attempting to find an answer to this question. perhaps I've stumbled across something else you wrote about it under another guise? It's a small world and some things are hard to forget. The pins on this property are pretty consistent though it looks like at least 2 or 3 surveys were done here, there's pins right up next to older pins in spots, the L shaped pin marking the front corner of the driveway has a circular, maybe 1" round pin driven down right next to it, inside of the right angle so they're perfectly flush with each other and they poke up just above the level of the dirt. The L shaped pins represent an older survey while the round pins are newer, there was something else here once or I'll be damned, maybe it was just something on the old layout but no map says anything about it that i can find. I don't know how old but there is something older here, that's what I think.

 

[Bucket Lister]

I've got several different kinds of property pins, ranging from solid steel bar to rebar to steel pipe. A couple of them (the pipes) are now below ground, having rusted off above ground.

The bent-over rebar does sound like anchor bolts. Were these driven or sunken into anything deeper (like pylons of concrete or wood)? I had a friend who tried to build a barn once. He got the concrete pylons in, with exposed anchor bolts, but never got any further (He went to Med school instead 👨‍⚕️ and became a surgeon). Eventually, ground level rose to overgrow the pylons. This is just an example.

If done correctly, permanent pins should be long enough to be driven below the frost line. If frost heave isn't an issue, they may be shorter/shallower. Instances of double pins may indicate an error, or a pin that has been moved by frost or other.

But pins (or stakes) can serve other purposes. As I mentioned earlier, they can lay out building lines, fence lines (pastures, paddocks, etc.), mark utilities, springs/wells ... Heck, we used to drive stakes to lay out our gardens. If you extend the lines they make, are they pointing to anything?

Also, guys who do things by overkill are not new. I think that's partly where the expression, "They don't build em like they used to" came from.

You've got an interesting mystery here. If it were me, I think I'd look to those written histories, family histories, gubmint offices (were any plans/permits issued/applied for?), public & private libraries, local hysterical societies... You probably already have.

 

[pepperj]

I've detected lots of pins in the fields, (just looked to see if I had an example of one, but not handy.)
Usually the original pins from the 1800"s are a little over an inch sq. and a foot long.
Tapered the last 1/3 of the pin.
I have one pin along the shoreline that is 3 feet in length.
Newer pins are square 3/4" and longer, old monuments are an X on a flat piece of concrete or stone. Some are an arrow pointing to the other marker.

 

[releventchair]

I think I've read somewhere about an old bicycle being used on some forum somewhere fairly recently attempting to find an answer to this question. perhaps I've stumbled across something else you wrote about it under another guise? It's a small world and some things are hard to forget. The pins on this property are pretty consistent though it looks like at least 2 or 3 surveys were done here, there's pins right up next to older pins in spots, the L shaped pin marking the front corner of the driveway has a circular, maybe 1" round pin driven down right next to it, inside of the right angle so they're perfectly flush with each other and they poke up just above the level of the dirt. The L shaped pins represent an older survey while the round pins are newer, there was something else here once or I'll be damned, maybe it was just something on the old layout but no map says anything about it that i can find. I don't know how old but there is something older here, that's what I think.

Doubt it was my mentioning a bike elsewhere.

We used to stake out goats , a horse, dogs at times.
A used well point was used. The upper fitting making a good stop A muffler clamp around the point lower created a swivel.
Other stakes were used too of course.

A pop up hunting bling got to use my custom overbuilt boat holding "pin"/stake.
After the wind tore things up the stake is safely home.
But I have recovered two earth anchors on that property from a former owner. Posts exist too.
I had iron placed during surveying as I do all buys , but have not checked them there.
I was relocating here last year. Now there are six(?) more T-posts standing in varied areas. Because I have used T-posts laying around.
Set back requirements and general where I'd put a barn type stakes.

Stakes hold guy ropes for poles. Poles hold shade , or rain deflection.. Fout in a few-several feet area could tether a tall flag or bird house pole. Them purple martin houses can get heavy. And folks don't like seeing bird houses crash.
Clothsline poles can use support if for some reason wobbly.
So can a fencepost.
Sometimes trees.
An outhouse might only need to get wind wobbled enough once for demands to secure it to get loud.
All can be temporary.

 

[Midden-marauder]

I've got several different kinds of property pins, ranging from solid steel bar to rebar to steel pipe. A couple of them (the pipes) are now below ground, having rusted off above ground.

The bent-over rebar does sound like anchor bolts. Were these driven or sunken into anything deeper (like pylons of concrete or wood)? I had a friend who tried to build a barn once. He got the concrete pylons in, with exposed anchor bolts, but never got any further (He went to Med school instead 👨‍⚕️ and became a surgeon). Eventually, ground level rose to overgrow the pylons. This is just an example.

If done correctly, permanent pins should be long enough to be driven below the frost line. If frost heave isn't an issue, they may be shorter/shallower. Instances of double pins may indicate an error, or a pin that has been moved by frost or other.

But pins (or stakes) can serve other purposes. As I mentioned earlier, they can lay out building lines, fence lines (pastures, paddocks, etc.), mark utilities, springs/wells ... Heck, we used to drive stakes to lay out our gardens. If you extend the lines they make, are they pointing to anything?

Also, guys who do things by overkill are not new. I think that's partly where the expression, "They don't build em like they used to" came from.

You've got an interesting mystery here. If it were me, I think I'd look to those written histories, family histories, gubmint offices (were any plans/permits issued/applied for?), public & private libraries, local hysterical societies... You probably already have.

Oh see now you really have me thinking here. The utilities are about 12-13" down, I know this as a result of jamming the sensitivity of my MD and have accidentally dug on them 4 separate times now lol. Oops, iron falsing past 6" is a thing with my machine. In any case, your comments here opens up a can of historical worms and that's hot. These are definitely not below the frost line, exact length of the pins is unknown as I haven't attempted to remove them. They are at a consistent depth so I assumed they were survey pins but now I question that assumption.

 

[Midden-marauder]

Ok, here's the photo as promised, this is the pin up at the head of our driveway, the L shaped pin is the one in question

 

[Midden-marauder]

The other 3 are shaped exactly like it but are sunk into the ground about 4".

 

[pepperj]

Ok, here's the photo as promised, this is the pin up at the head of our driveway, the L shaped pin is the one in question

L channel or it might of been a bed frame repurposed to protect the pin.
The other ones might of been pins for an out building.
Have you measured the 3 (distances between them)?

 

[Midden-marauder]

L channel or it might of been a bed frame repurposed to protect the pin.
The other ones might of been pins for an out building.
Have you measured the 3 (distances between them)?

Not yet but I'm going to, I'm gonna check also to see if there's a fourth pin in the mix, there's that well head inside the boundary of the apparent formation but I'm not sure if that's a related feature, it looks to be of similar age and is at a similar depth.

 

[Midden-marauder]

L channel or it might of been a bed frame repurposed to protect the pin.
The other ones might of been pins for an out building.
Have you measured the 3 (distances between them)?

And perhaps I'll dig up that proposed well head for a photo. I can't imagine what else it would be. Perhaps a drain? 4-5" metal pipe going straight down to an unknown depth

 

[Clay Diggins]

Ok, here's the photo as promised, this is the pin up at the head of our driveway, the L shaped pin is the one in question

It's not a pin It's a chopped off T-post. Those things can be a bugger to dig up when you want them gone so a lot of people just give up and cut them off. It's bad practice to leave them, for obvious reasons, but I've seen the same many times.

Not knowing the dimensions of the rectangle these formed I can't really speculate on the prior use but they are usually used as fence posts to keep animals in or out of an area. Yours appear to be the lighter European style L posts with holes. Probably a garden fence to keep dogs, deer etc out.

 

[Midden-marauder]

It's not a pin It's a chopped off T-post. Those things can be a bugger to dig up when you want them gone so a lot of people just give up and cut them off. It's bad practice to leave them, for obvious reasons, but I've seen the same many times.

Not knowing the dimensions of the rectangle these formed I can't really speculate on the prior use but they are usually used as fence posts to keep animals in or out of an area. Yours appear to be the lighter European style L posts with holes. Probably a garden fence to keep dogs, deer etc out.

Thanks, I'm gonna try to locate a theoretical 4th pin if it's there. If so then it's likely the remnants of an older structure which would be very intriguing especially given the well head, I'm painting a fairly detailed picture of the properties past for my partner who forever seeks connection to her ancestors, snapshots of various times and situations. I've located and restored a series of tools belonging to her great grandfather buried in various key spots on the property, a pretty lipstick tube that belonged to her grandmother that she actually recalls from childhood and a lot of evidence of the comings and goings from different periods in time. I likewise determined that her great grandfather owned a Ford 8N from certain parts located in one spot, I was able to find a picture of it for her. It's a fun search honestly. Hell, you cats helped me to date a pair of ember tongs from the mid 1900s I found buried about 2" down next to the old garage. I've still got a lot of ground to cover and different depths to go over. If this is the remains of a previous structure from before the time of her great grandparents that would be really cool!