Properly staked and filed mining claims..

[StreamlineGold]

Figured I would post here just from some or the things I have learned and the mistakes I see made with the claims staking and filing process, including my own. I am in no way claiming to be an expert, but the stuff I see happening out there is just mind boggling.

The very first thing before you even step foot on ground with the intent of locating minerals, CHECK THE LAND STATUS!!! GIS mapping applications can help with this, whether it belong to the BLM, National Forest, State Land, Private, Wilderness etc. KNOW YOUR RIGHTS! Patents are everywhere and by no means does that mean you can find signs, posts etc. How many videos do we see with people trespassing unknowingly into old mines that are PRIVATE PROPERTY!


Now im only referring to BLM and Forest Service land for reference, State and other lands have a different procedure..

Once you know you can legally prospect on said land, you should check for active claims, just because there are not claim monuments posted doesn’t mean there is not a valid active claim in place. You can usually find maps, and the original claim documents on file with the county, along with LR2000 research. But keep in mind LR2000 is not usually up to date and new claims usually are delayed to show up.


This brings up a sticky issue. While the existence of posts or lack thereof may just mean its an old claim and the posts or monuments have been destroyed or gone for some unknown reason. Some individuals will file a claim without ever setting foot on the the ground. That just simply is skipping the ‘staking’ part of the claim. If you file these documents, it literally says ‘posted on the ground on xxx date’. If you do this is hardly a legal mining claim.

While BLM doesn’t go out and check to make sure you actually did this, but if a challenge comes up, what evidence in court will actually prove you did the ‘location’ part? If you want to file a claim, and you cant physically get there and place the posts and corners, then hire someone to do it. Its that simple. Dont just mail it in and think you are done.

Lode claims and placer claims have different regulations and may vary by state on to how they are to be properly marked. Its well documented how to do this, without going into great detail, Lodes need 6 posts and a location marker, Placer claims can be as little as 4 corners only, which may vary by state.. and remember old claims staked decades ago may have been under different regulations.

Another thing I see all the time in documentation, is there is no distance to a natural or permanent object. Pretty simple, make sure that people can actually understand where your claim is, in reference to something. Most prospectors will respect boundaries, but if no one can figure out where you are? How are they supposed to know. And make sure that your location on the ground matches the documents as closely as possible.

There are a lot of ‘claim flippers’ out there. They are notoriously bad at all of the above. Always buyer beware if you want to buy a claim off someone. They could very likely be selling an invalid claim just due to poor documentation. Get on the ground and see the claim for yourself first..

There are plenty of posts here on the topic of how to fill out the documentation and file with the proper agency. But short notes, post your notice on the ground and with the proper authorities within 90 days

To me its good form to make sure your boundaries are plainly visible, you cant really have too many signs IMO. The desert and forest can be pretty hard to find a claim post just randomly in a ravine or behind a bush or cactus. Just make it easy on yourself and others that may be interested in the ground nearby.

There are a lot more details that more refined experts will comment about, particularly with the ‘location’ portion of filing a claim etc.. but I just thought I would share my experiences and thoughts.

 

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[Clay Diggins]

There is a lot of misinformation in this video. Wrong number of stakes (7 minimum for a lode claim), no metes and bounds description (required for a lode claim), incorrect filing date, incorrect claim measurements and wrong acreage. I'm sure there is more but that's a good start.

The guy is obviously sincere and trying to help. He has some good ideas. The sad part is all the info you need is in the 1872 Mining Act and in your State law regarding Locating a mining claim.

I encourage everyone to learn these simple claim location laws. If the video maker had read these laws I feel sure he would correct his errors. He's not a bad guy - just misinformed. Prospectors have been making good locations for more than 145 years following these same laws. It's a basic skill that's as valuable and important as learning to pan.

Educate yourself and prosper!

Heavy Pans

 

[StreamlineGold]

Metes n bounds i was told by the Blm adjudicators is only really needed if your claim is not north/south or east/west. Maybe only in A/z but it makes sense.. obviously an odd shape or angle claim needs a good legal description

 

[Clay Diggins]

Metes n bounds i was told by the Blm adjudicators is only really needed if your claim is not north/south or east/west. Maybe only in A/z but it makes sense.. obviously an odd shape or angle claim needs a good legal description

That BLM adjudicator is full of it if he was talking about lode claims.

Lode claims can't be described by aliquot parts. That's not a legal thing it's just physics, a lode claim simply can't fit into a regular division of the survey. Whether the claim is North/South or at an off angle there is no way to evenly divide 1500 foot or 600 foot into a regular division of the survey.

Besides the physical impossibility of describing a lode claim by anything but metes and bounds the mining law already addressed how a lode claim is legally described.

1872 Mining Act SEC. 8.
Lode claims:

The description of vein or lode claims, upon surveyed lands, shall designate the location of the claim with reference to the lines of the public surveys, but need not conform therewith

1872 Mining Act SEC. 8.
Notice the difference from placer claims:

All placer mining-claims hereafter located shall conform as near as practicable with the United States system of public land surveys and the rectangular subdivisions of such surveys, and no such location shall include more than twenty acres for each individual claimant, but where such claims cannot be conformed to legal subdivisions, survey and plat shall be made as on unsurveyed lands

Interestingly the BLM has already made it clear in regulations and in court cases that a lode claim can only be located by metes and bounds. When the BLM was finalizing their regulations on locating mining claims in 2003 several people made the same claim that the man in the video made. Here is the BLM's response just as it was published in the official record:

Several comments objected to the requirement for a metes and bounds description of a lode claim, saying that it would be unnecessary, not required by law, and burdensome, especially if it made a survey necessary. We have not changed the regulations in the final rule in response to these comments. This is not a new requirement. Lode claims cannot be described by aliquot part because of their parallelogram shape. We have retained in paragraph (a)(2)(iv) the provision that professional surveys are not necessary. We do not believe that it is burdensome to provide a metes and bounds description. The previous regulations at section 3841.4-5 required descriptions by courses and distances from the discovery monument. Courses and distances are part of a metes and bounds description, so we are merely correcting our terminology.

Since that was published in the Federal Register every BLM agent and every citizen is presumed to be put on legal notice of the fact. In other words that BLM agent was talking out of his hat. The BLM policy and practice, the law, as well as dozens of court decisions clearly state that all lode claims must be located by metes and bounds.

As I wrote - it's all in there in the law. Maybe you could share those links with your misinformed BLM agent?

Heavy Pans

 

[Clay Diggins]

More on BLM policy and regulation of lode claim Locations. Here are the current federal regulations for describing a lode claim on a location notice right from the official source:

§ 3841.4—5 Location notice;

(a) The location notice should give the course and distance as nearly as practicable from the discovery shaft on the claim to some permanent, well known points or objects, such, for instance, as stone monuments, blazed trees, the confluence of streams, point of intersection of well-known gulches, ravines, or roads, prominent buttes, hills, etc., which may be in the immediate vicinity, and which will serve to perpetuate and fix the locus of the claim and render it susceptible of identification from the description thereof given in the record of locations in the district, and should be duly recorded.

(b) In addition to the foregoing data, the claimant should state the names of adjoining claims, or, if none adjoin, the relative positions of the nearest claims; should drive a post or erect a monument of stones at each corner of his surface ground, and at the point of discovery or discovery shaft should fix a post, stake, or board, upon which should be designated the name of the lode, the name or names of the locators, the number of feet claimed, and in which direction from the point of discovery, it being essential that the location notice filed for record, in addition to the foregoing description, should state whether the entire claim of 1,500 feet is taken on one side of the point of discovery, or whether it is partly upon one and partly upon the other side thereof, and in the latter case, how many feet are claimed upon each side of such discovery point. As to the importance of monuments, and as to their paramount authority, see the Act of April 28, 1904 (33 Stat. 545; 30 U.S.C. 34), which amended R.S. 2327.

Heavy Pans

 

[StreamlineGold]

Not talking about aliquot parts,
your tie in on a claim form , as well as the verbs for a lode somewhat lays it out in metes and bounds.. if your at an angle I always add another form with a better legal description.

I am not seeing the BLM asking for amendments on these claims ( some over 20 years old). The whole point is so the claim can be easily found.

Not disagreeing, but if that all true then a hell of a lot of claims need amendments

 

[StreamlineGold]

Looks like the old blm forms are laid out exactly the way they should be.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Not talking about aliquot parts,
your tie in on a claim form , as well as the verbs for a lode somewhat lays it out in metes and bounds.. if your at an angle I always add another form with a better legal description.

I am not seeing the BLM asking for amendments on these claims ( some over 20 years old). The whole point is so the claim can be easily found.

Not disagreeing, but if that all true then a hell of a lot of claims need amendments

The BLM will not challenge the description insufficiency unless they plan a use for the land. Their only legal requirement until that time is that the claim can be found on the ground by a reasonable person based on the description.

If the BLM does plan another use for the land your claim will go *poof* pretty darn quick if you didn't bother following the laws of location. It happens to hundreds of claims each year. Adverse claimants have also found much joy over the years in improperly described locations.

I always figured if the minerals were worth claiming it's worth doing it right. In my business sloppy location descriptions are not accepted nor are they considered acceptable. Mining companies are interested in good deposits - not drama caused by poorly located claims. It's a competitive business and a deficient location will be pounced on by other mining companies. I guess if you are making a claim to recreate or practice dowsing you could put just about anything on a piece of paper and call it a "claim".

I've often found it curious that in a nation that allows citizens to find and keep public minerals for their own some folks still balk at following a few simple rules so they can keep those minerals. Metes and bounds claims aren't all that difficult to describe and any other method of lode claim description just isn't acceptable to the courts, the BLM or the industry. It seems like a no brainer to me - do the metes and bounds as required.

Heavy Pans

 

[StreamlineGold]

Thats because you cant even trust the authorities on the matter. That also seems that the forms themselves are insufficient.. almost setting you up for failure. The tiny map section is a joke.

However,
Its an easy enough thing to fix just by filing an extra document with the BLM.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Thats because you cant even trust the authorities on the matter.

Its an easy enough thing to fix just by filing an extra document with the BLM.

We see the "authority" differently. You rely on verbal statements from a BLM employee and I rely on written law, court decisions and uniform regulations. Guess which one of those aren't going to be admitted in your court case to save your mining claim?

You are right - the "fix" is simple. Record a proper mining claim amendment and file a copy with the BLM for $15. Easy peasy if you know what needs to be done.

Heavy Pans

 

[StreamlineGold]

Aka, cover your ass!

One thing I have gotten in the habit of doing is taking a video or at least pictures of the day the corners and posts are set. That will go a long way especially when booting off jumpers.