possible rosette with horses face age and is it from thecivil war?

[bootybay]

this was found at the historic site I been working on..help please, part of the horses face is missing

 

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[LadyDigger]

Kinda' reminds me of what DCMatt found at our last Pipsico Hunt a couple of weeks ago....

Look under my profile pic and click my website link....look for the folder that says: PIPSICO 2nd HUNT: DCMATT Horse Harness Piece.

It may not be the same...but that is what it reminds me of....

Nice piece too!!! Hope you are able to determine what it really is and sorry I'm not much help...

 

[CRUSADER]

See my response in Todays finds

 

[PBK]

I would agree that it is most likely a bridle rosette. Rotated, the design also resembles an armored arm, embowed, rising out of a crown— similar to those seen on certain livery buttons and devices of heraldry. Note the crown, detail at elbow, and rivet-dots on the upper arm.

​

 

[LadyDigger]

PBK...kinda' like on this link:

http://www.irishsurnames.com/other.htm

A link for Livery Button Symbols:

http://metaldetectingtours.com/htm/artifact_coin_finds_tudor.shtml

Curious as to what this is

 

[kieser sousa/rip]

Nice find ! I think PBK got it,if you look in the lower left corner you can see what looks like a rivet hole that would hold the sword handle

 

[LadyDigger]

Once again...GREAT JOB PBK!!!!

 

[bootybay]

so if I am reading all this right, your all saying that this is a rosette but it was a special one given to someone of high stature or am I way off topic here. also beings close to Pa. maybe too there is the possibility of the british comming thru here as well.. could be either way I love it. nother relic for my collection.. thank you

 

[Admiral de Salee]

It does look a bit cow-ish, but the yoke / horsecollar had me thinking this might be from Quartermaster Corps. tack. Military wagon train stuff.

 

[DCMatt]

so if I am reading all this right, your all saying that this is a rosette but it was a special one given to someone of high stature or am I way off topic here. also beings close to Pa. maybe too there is the possibility of the british comming thru here as well.. could be either way I love it. nother relic for my collection.. thank you

I think PBK is simply saying it's not a horse head. I believe he has correctly identified the image as a crown with a bent (embowed) arm coming out of it that was holding a sword or something else (scythe, arrow, hammer...). This imagery is fairly common on family crests or coat-of-arms. It was also used on livery buttons and horse furniture.

It is a very nice find! Similar to one I found in southern Virginia early this month. Mine did not have anyting on the front but the loop was intact on the back. It was found at a house site occupied from the mid 1800's up thru the 1930's.

DCMatt

 

[bootybay]

During the revolutionairy War, the british were all over this area..infact one colonial captain was hung very very close to this site by the british.. is it possible that this could be from that era?

 

[CRUSADER]

I must say I did see the crown when I first looked at it. Then I got drawn into to horse/cow head theory. Anyway here are some similar Livery Buttons I have found. These were popular in about 1780-1830.

I can see a shadow of what the hand was holding. Looks like a Bow shape?

Interestingly for the crown to be upright the arm is at a unusual angle for any I have seen. Not impossible, just unusual. The crown types often indicate different relations to Royality, Duke etc.. now there a thought

No-one has really come up with a date. I guessed 1850-1900. The patina seems to indicate that type of age. However were sudo-heraldic arms still put on horse furniture as late as 1850 in the US??(I have no idea) Could this be Rev war?? Come on someone must know?

 

[CRUSADER]

During the revolutionairy War, the british were all over this area..infact one colonial captain was hung very very close to this site by the british.. is it possible that this could be from that era?

See what I put as you wrote this!!

 

[bootybay]

Crusader, how did you clean yours up? so we can get more details on this peice.. also.. I have got to find out the exact date this house was built... and its is right up against a river, where the salt water meets... and that is the area where the capt. was hung. also, all the names of the first early settlers here were british, infact alot of the names owning the properties along that stretch of area were owned by the british that came here pre the revolutionairy war, and again this area being near the river to the bay..was over run here with british ( during the revolutionairy war)since that river was a means of transportation to other areas, like Mays Landing.. so anythings possible at this point...hell even moonshiners used that river too.

I am craving so much history that its like I am having a mack attack... I just love this...and I think I may go back to the site for a bit to see what else I can come up with...

also this same river, was a ship building site too.. and right across from my site is the blacksmith shop too.. this area was loaded with tons of folks from the beginning of this town and the land the site is on...was and is still a main road today.. we had skirmishes galore here..

One of the main family names here was Scull.. records show them here as early as 1695 which is also after many names.. town of Jefferies ( Jefferyes) to the Sculls, hence the name Scullville, then it was changed to EHT due to the 911 emergency phone service years ago... this is just getting more and more instersting.

look at me.... no old coins.. no gold or good jewelry..but boy am I having one blast with the relics...

 

[CRUSADER]

Crusader, how did you clean yours up?

Mine are only plated buttons & like with all my finds I only clean with a nail brush & water.

Finding these things is what creates that thirst for history. Thats how I have built my knowledge - by researching all the finds I have been lucky enough to find & now own

As you say go back over the land in damp conditions carefully with Disc low. DIG ALL.

 

[bootybay]

Crusader, I added to my previous post above... and now I am super syked again...since this area was known for so so many skirmishes between the british, there is the possibility that I can find musket balls here too. and by the way I spelled one name wrong.. .
John Jeffryes 1735-1810 along the river was made warf master in 1819.
but the town was once called village of Jeffers .. I had spelled his last name previously. and one of the early first records of land ( other then the Scull family) was William Lake records shows him owning lots of land here in 1716/1717

 

[DCMatt]

hell even moonshiners used that river

Oh, then it must be a beer can top...

 

[bootybay]

LMAO DC... too funny