Please I.D. my dug button

[Silver Fox]

Hi all: I found this button years ago in New York City's Madison Square Park (Many believe that Madison Square Park is the birthplace of baseball, since Alexander Cartwright formed the first baseball club, the New York Knickerbockers, here in 1845.) along with a minnie ball and a pointed civil war bullet (Sharps?). I have a memory of them being near the surface.

Please give me whatever info you may have including its possible value, if any. And if any of you want to own it let me know.

Silver Fox

 

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[nhbenz]

It appears to be a civil war era Rhode Island militia button, listed in Albert's as RI17. About $400 would be a fair value. Dangit, my sarcasm is showing... where's the photo?

 

[Montana Jim]

It appears to be a civil war era Rhode Island militia button, listed in Albert's as RI17. About $400 would be a fair value. Dangit, my sarcasm is showing... where's the photo?

That happens when when you're as old as you are Ben... Not your funny looks, but your sarcasm.

 

[Silver Fox]

It appears to be a civil war era Rhode Island militia button, listed in Albert's as RI17. About $400 would be a fair value. Dangit, my sarcasm is showing... where's the photo?

Thanks for your response, I appreciate it. I'm surprised that the photo disappeared so I uploaded it again and I saw it so I know uploading was a success. IF the photos should disappear I'll be more than glad to send copies in an email to whoever requests it.

 

[Montana Jim]

crossed sabers = cavalry
crossed cannons = field artillery
round ordnance = ordnance corps

all three elements = goofy civilian button I think...

I'll keep looking... I don't think it's a military button and in that condition, with little or no petina, there is no way it's CW era IMO.

 

[ivan salis]

very screwy -- three very differant branches of the military on the same button? -- ordance (explosives/ engineers)) and cannons (artillery) I could see together --- but sabers (calvary) too boot? -- its a old civilian button maybe to screwy for military I would think --- you would not know what command it belonged too -- looks like a old two piece style .

 

[Silver Fox]

Hi all: I found this button years ago in New York City's Madison Square Park (Many believe that Madison Square Park is the birthplace of baseball, since Alexander Cartwright formed the first baseball club, the New York Knickerbockers, here in 1845.) along with a minnie ball and a pointed civil war bullet (Sharps?). I have a memory of them being near the surface.

Please give me whatever info you may have including its possible value, if any. And if any of you want to own it let me know.

Silver Fox

NHbenz's reply got me salivating, Montana Jim's reply brought me down a little, ivan salis' reply strengthened the down. I searched the web especially google images and came up blank. But I did make note of Albert's book title and today I went to the New York Public Library, the main building on 42nd Street and Fifth Avenue, the one with the 2 lions on the front (Patience and Fortitude: Patience still guards the south side of the Library's steps and Fortitude sits unwaveringly to the north. ). Walking through the grand room of this beautiful building to reach the small Humanities - Art & Architecture room was worth the bus ride from my apartment building. I requested Alphaus H. Albert's "Record of American Uniforms and Historical Buttons" and the supplement and after a 20-minute wait they were brought to my table. The copies were donated to the library by Mr. Albert and they were dedicated and signed by him in 1970!

I looked at 448 pages plus the supplement and did not see any buttons resembling mine.

I had written to 2 web sites selling dug and non-dub buttons and one of the replies said "This is foreign...I can't offer any other help."

I don't know what I found and, perhaps, Montana Jim and ivan salis called it right. But it still has some kind of history since I didn't buy the button new, I found it with my detector and I don't remember how deep it was.

Still hoping someone will identify it, fake or not.

 

[nhbenz]

Silver Fox, sorry for my sarcastic (silly) response. I have to agree with the above opinions that this is not a military button. Welcome to TreasureNet, a world of peculiar opinions. I researched a bunch of veterans buttons, thinking it might have been related to one of these organizations, but no luck there.

 

[Silver Fox]

After your replies and sources given failed to identify my button I did an extensive search on Google including Images. I also wrote to a ton of websites with military buttons and only a couple of courteous people wrote, the rest ignored my requests. I decided to write to one final authority which required snail mail with actual photos since the person has no email address 'cause if he did he would probably be swamped and wouldn't have time to write his column or live a normal life!

The person is Mark Parker who has a regular column, "Ask Mark Parker," in Western & Eastern Treasures magazine. I sent him printed black and white photos of my button 'cause I don't have a color printer. Today I received his surprising reply.

He told me that he struck out in all attempts to identify the button. He is fairly sure that it's a late 19th century military button from one of the western European nations but couldn't locate it anywhere. He forwarded my photos to buttons specialist Bob Edmondson and Bob also drew a blank on it. Bob said the obverse looked Italian but the reverse looked French but he's not sure.

I was given another source which, again, is difficult in locating as the New York Public Library doesn't even have a reference copy. It's the book "BOTTONI MILITARI ITALIANI" by Carlo Sabatini and Eraldo Antonini, Pucchi Editore, 1998.

So, guys and gals, while not having an I.D. on the button is disheartening, it seems that I've found an ultra-rare button and THAT gladdens my heart. So I wrote to Mark at W&ET to consider placing the photos of my button on his column and ask readers for their help since such a rare button should be featured in the magazine in the first place.

I'll keep you posted.

Silver Fox

 

[Montana Jim]

Way to go on trying to get the ID... I hope you get good news...

 

[Seuban]

I found this. I'm not sure if it will help but it looks very similar to the symbol on your button.

http://www.ima-usa.com/product_info.php/cPath/235/products_id/1796

Here are some other images of Italian military badges:

http://www.militarybadges.info/images/italy/06.jpg

 

[Montana Jim]

Encouraging!

I just ID'd two Italian Navy buttons in the last week...

The rim of this one is exact to some other Italian military buttons I've seen - but, the "flame" over the bomb is seemingly wrong.

 

[Silver Fox]

I found this Italian military button on Google Images which has a distant similarity to mine but it shows that Mark Parker may have found the originating country. The similarities are in the edge treatments, not the center images. The owner of the button added under the image: "An original Italian Army button used in 1979 and 1980 (by me, of course)." Whoever manufactured my button could have also used the same "die" for the 1979 shape. I accept Mark's dating but until I have a definite answer I have to accept that it could possibly be much younger.

Thanks to all of you who have helped with this, I appreciate it. One of these days one of you will surprise the heck out of me with news that you found the button's source. In the meantime, look at the 1979 button and compare.

Silver Fox

 

[Silver Fox]

I forgot to include that I could swear that I found this button in NYC's Madison Square Garden Park since that is where I found a Sharpe's-type bullet along with a Minnie ball but I got it wrong. Looking through my calendars/diaries, I wrote that I found it in Los Angeles in the 1980s which is why it looks so good. In NYC parks soils it might have been more corroded. I'm glad that even though it's clean (I cleaned it, gently) it still shows signs of being in the ground.

Silver Fox