Please come support idaho miners

[panningjack]

On February 3, 1:30, there will be a hearing in RM 2 , the Senate and House Auditorium (West Garden Level), to discuss Recreational Mining. I expect that someone from EPA will be attending to explain their new permit system. Little information is available about this event except that it is being sponsored by the House and Senate Resource Committees. As more information becomes available, I will share. WHAT WE DO KNOW IS WE NEED AS MANY IRC MEMBERS AS POSSIBLE TO ATTEND. Like all our issues, this is about access—Please attend. We need numbers and the subject matter is most interesting.

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Minelab PRO-FIND 35 Waterproof Pinpointer Metal Detector for Experts with Tone ID & Adjustable Sensitivity - Grab it through Amazon!

[Oakview2]

Copied from the GPAA forum

From the Northwest Gold Prospectors Association FB Page!

From the Northwest Gold Prospectors Association FB Page!

Clearwater Chapter MINERS WANTED ~ FEBRUARY 3RD ~ BOISE, IDAHO ~PLEASE SHARE THIS INFORMATION~ Vic Schneider has been working with Don Smith from Riggins, Idaho., for the last 2 months trying to have a meeting with the State Representative and Senators in an attempt to rid the small scale dredge miner of the NPDES Permit. The meeting has now been confirmed!! It will be on Feb. 3rd from 1:30-2:30 MT at the Lincoln Auditorium in Boise with the Senate Resource and Environment Committee. There will be 18 Representatives and 9 Senators at this meeting. We may also have Joseph Greene, a retired Research Biologist for the EPA who has written many reports supporting small suction dredging!!! If Mr. Greene agrees to come to the meeting it may cost us $900 or so. Any donations will be appreciated. Vic has made folders for the presentation that include many facts about dredging and lawsuits supporting it and has been in contact with Commissioners and Representatives who are on the side of the miner. This may be our only chance to stand up to the EPA on a state level. We will be submitting scientific and legal facts to the committee. We will update you all as information comes to us. There is enough room for 200 people so try to plan on coming. Only a selected few will be allowed to speak but we need to show solidarity for our issues. Call Vic for further information if you wish. Loretta and Vic Schneider 1015 Clearcreek Rd Kooskia, ID 83539 208-926-7098

 

[Oakview2]

You need a strong turnout, bite the bullet and spend the money for the expert, and nip this in bud so your elected officials can run these carpetbaggers out of your state. If I was a resident of your state, I would be there in a New York minute. Having experienced a rececent similar meeting,

MAKE SURE THAT EVERYONE WHO ATTENDS, WRITES THEIR CONCERNS DOWN ON PAPER, SIGN AND HAVE ENTERED INTO THE RECORD. USUALLY ONLY WRITTEN NOT VERBAL ARE ENTERED AND MAKE SURE YOUR EXPERT DOES SO AS WELL. YOUR FIGHT IS A FIGHT FOR ALL OF THE WEST, JUST AS CALI AND OREGON

 

[Hoser John]

SPEAK UP NOW OR FOREVER EAT KAKA-as in kalif and oregon now too---John

 

[Clay Diggins]

I think you are missing the point. The Supreme Court and the 9th Circuit Court have already ruled that in-stream sediment is not pollution and is not subject to EPA authority.

The EPA is pulling the wool over your eyes and it seems to be working. Please don't argue about the effects of dredging when the real issue is the EPA is trying to rule by intimidation and threat when they have already had the rug pulled out from under their scheme by the courts. Just go dredge, no court can convict you. No permit needed.

 

[rodoconnor]

Clay I agree with you. The odds that a local county sheriff will bust you up here are very slim. However--with this corrupt administration the deck is stacked against us!! Up to $60000 fine. We have to fight them constantly and at every level

 

[Hoser John]

TRUTH-JUSTICE-FACTS-FIGURES-AND THE AMERICAN WAY NO LONGER MATTER IN A COURT OF LAW OR LEGISLATURE. Now legal,in accordance to supreme court ruling, to buy politicians with as much cash as needed so adios truth.Proof-ez-Vermont,kalif,ore"gone" and maine going going gone---John

 

[mxer47]

Clay, when you say no permit needed are you referring to Idaho or EPA or dredging in general?Nevada has permits through DOW to protect spanning. Your posts are quite informative and I think that statement needs some clarification. Thanks

 

[Clay Diggins]

Clay, when you say no permit needed are you referring to Idaho or EPA or dredging in general?Nevada has permits through DOW to protect spanning. Your posts are quite informative and I think that statement needs some clarification. Thanks

I'm talking about Federal regulation of dredging by the EPA. Their NPDES can not apply to in stream dredging and they know it. Several court decisions over the last decade including the Supreme Court say that the EPA does not control either in stream generated sediment or in stream water qualities. Neither are water pollution under the law.

There is no law here to enforce. Doesn't matter if it's the Sheriff or Obama himself the courts have ruled the EPA only controls pollution from outside the watercourse. They have specifically ruled that in stream sediment is not a pollutant under the law - neither point source nor non point source.

It's really just that simple.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Here's all you need to understand that NO court can find that dredgers can be required to get an NPDES permit to dredge for gold. This applies wherever there are NPDES permits offered for dredging in stream.

Supreme Court precedent holds that discharges occur under the Clean Water Act only if water is transferred between "meaningfully distinct water bodies." Using a colorful analogy, the Supreme Court explained: "If one takes a ladle of soup from a pot, lifts it above the pot, and pours it back into the pot, one has not ‘added' soup or anything else to the pot."

Get the PDF of the whole Supreme Court decision in PDF form here.

On January 8, 2013, the Supreme Court of the United States decided Los Angeles County Flood Control District v. Natural Resources Defense Council, Inc., No. 11-460

Notice how the Supreme Court quotes their own decisions going back more than 10 years where they have over and over ruled the EPA can not enforce the Clean Water Act or require NPDES permits when there is no addition to the existing water. That includes silt, sediment and storm runoff.

Carry this decision and the others mentioned in it to any court in the country and the EPA will lose the case.

Go dredge and stop getting distracted by the little man behind the curtain. Your right to dredge is safe from the EPA - always and everywhere.

Now you have proof that TRUTH-JUSTICE-FACTS-FIGURES-AND THE AMERICAN WAY DO MATTER IN A COURT OF LAW.

 

[panningjack]

NICE! Thanks Clay! I'll be printing this out and putting it in with my other mining law info. I'm not even going to bother with the EPA bs now. If anyone comes to see my permit I've got ammo to tell them to F off now

 

[Underburden]

Thank you so much for that link to the Supreme Court decision.

Bob

 

[Underburden]

Looks like some heavy hitters will be presenting at the meeting.
Joe Greene will be blowing holes through the EPA NPDES.
Tom Kitchar lending his support from the Waldo Mining District.
Sheriff Giddings knows he's more powerful than the president.
Jim Chmelik is focused on taking our lands back from the fed.

Bob


JOINT HOUSE RESOURCES & CONSERVATION COMMITTEE
AND
SENATE RESOURCES & ENVIRONMENT COMMITTEE
1:30 P.M.
Lincoln Auditorium WW02

Monday, February 03, 2014

SUBJECT: Suction Dredge Mining

PRESENTERS:
Joe Greene, US EPA scientist (Ret);
Tom Kitchar, President of Waldo Mining District, SW Oregon;
Doug Giddings, Sheriff, Idaho County;
Jim Chmelik, Idaho County Commissioner.

 

[mineralized_miner]

I wish I could go to these things, but I'm not even near the midwest. I hate being so young and realizing that I'll never get to do all these things because of the government that is supposed to protect our rights, not take them away. Metal detecting was banned in m county already, and now it looks like recreational mining on on the verge of being banned by the EPA everywhere. Why don't they just disband the EPA, and then start over with sensible rules. I can understand why they don't want people dumping gasoline in rivers, but taking sediment out of a stream and them putting it back in is not really affecting anything. Do they really have to make up new laws all the time? Can't they just have a break until a law is NEEDED?

 

[Underburden]

"Do they really have to make up new laws all the time? Can't they just have a break until a law is NEEDED?"

It's called Job Security.
Create a bogus problem, then spend million$ and hire greenies fresh out of college to help cure the bogus problem.
Their cure?
Ban man from the waters and forests.
If they believe they'll ever achieve 100% pure water and air, they are living on the wrong planet.

 

[omnicron]

Even our worst water in the US is VERY clean when you compare it to say the Philippines. Maybe we tax payers should sent them to the Philippines to see what dirty water really is and maybe they will open their eyes. In the Phils, all their toilets waste ends up in the rivers. The people just throw their trash every ware, it usually ends up in the creeks and rivers. My last time there, right after a major rain, there was a sand bar that was covered in plastic bags. Nice ehh! And to think my next trip back there, I'm going to make it a dredging vacation and get to enjoy this pollution!

 

[littlenugget1]

Todays meeting went really great! well informed speakers for the miners.

 

[panningjack]

Glad you made it. Hopefully they were listening

 

[littlenugget1]

there was a lot of eyes opened up while there was a few that got really heavey as the meeting went on. lol

 

[Underburden]

there was a lot of eyes opened up while there was a few that got really heavey as the meeting went on. lol

Whose eyes got opened and whose got heavy?
Can you expand some more on the meeting please.
Thanks
Bob