Placer Claim Etiquette & Asking for Permission

[aaronburrsir]

New to gold everything. I've been doing a lot of research on the Briceburg area and I notice that a lot of the historical gold producing spots on Merced river are pretty well claimed up. I also noticed that you can go into the BLM database and find names/addresses of who currently owns the claim.

I'm considering sending some of them an actual real life letter asking for permission for basic panning/sluicing and I'm wondering if others have done the same, or if it's easier to find/contact claim owners some other way. Obviously I have zero interest in claim jumping and will do everything above board and would never in my life do stuff without permission, including not doing anything if they said no. I would also offer to pay for day access etc.

Also I have been able to find some areas that aren't claimed currently but historically have closed claims.

General Claim Question
If a claim is currently marked as "closed" and the most recent claim history indicates either a claim being forfeited or a claim being declared as "null and void" does that mean that the area then becomes claimable by anyone again?

 

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[Goodyguy]

General Claim Question
If a claim is currently marked as "closed" and the most recent claim history indicates either a claim being forfeited or a claim being declared as "null and void" does that mean that the area then becomes claimable by anyone again?

Welcome to T-Net !

Short answer is ...yes ....maybe

Technically before you can file a claim, a discovery of a mineral must first be made following the prudent man rule, after that a required monument marker must be placed as well as many other requirements to meet BLM regulations. You will also need to know the district, township, range, section, and quarter section, as well as coordinates for the corners of your claim. Then the filling out of paperwork begins as well as paying fees. Not easy stuff for the "new to gold everything" person.

My advice would be to join a prospecting club that has gold claims, then you can prospect all you want and keep all the gold you find.
Plus you will be able to learn from other members.

Pretty doubtful that a claim owner would give permission to a stranger no matter how good a letter you write, I guess it wouldn't hurt to try. To me joining a club is the best alternative.

By the way, Are you any kin to Silveraith?

GG~

 

[aaronburrsir]

Welcome to T-Net !

By the way, Are you any kin to Silveraith?

GG~

I'm not.

But thanks for the advice! And yeah I'm trying to find clubs that I might be able to join. I found the Mother Lode Goldhounds and joined their Facebook group but seeing as they're up in Auburn it's a bit of a trek from Peninsula area. I'll try to look a bit more on my own and maybe search this forum.

Do you have any advice on finding prospecting clubs?

This weekend I learned from the https://www.yelp.com/biz/california-gold-panning-jamestown-3 folks and they do offer day access to their claim for a reasonable fee, so I plan on doing that over the next few months to learn all I can with my own equipment before getting any ideas about looking for my own claim. But it has been fun researching and learning about how claims are supposed to work.

Nice to meet you regardless. I'm trying to learn as much as I can from the experienced folks on this forum. I'm only about 10 pages into the EagleDown thread and enjoying it, but sad to see that he passed around 6 years ago.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Goody, not the same person.

 

[mikep691]

Aaron, Welcome. Merced river I have not been to, but after looking at LR2000 (which does not display maps of claims), You should study the Topo maps of your area of interest. Then BEFORE putting boots on the ground, make a trip to the County Recorder office. Some counties you can do this online. Once you have narrowed down your area of interest, you can see the maps of the claims in that area. Then you can do the "Pudent Man" discovery. It is an extra step, but it will truly keep you out of trouble in your search.

 

[Clay Diggins]

General Claim Question
If a claim is currently marked as "closed" and the most recent claim history indicates either a claim being forfeited or a claim being declared as "null and void" does that mean that the area then becomes claimable by anyone again?

No that would not be a logical assumption. Your question implies that there is a simple answer of claimed or not claimed. It really isn't that simple.

Here are just a few of the problems with assuming an area is open to a new claim just because a BLM mining claim case file is marked "CLOSED".

• Often mining claims are made one on top of another, there may already be a valid existing claim where the closed claim is listed. Assuming because one claim is closed that all claims there are closed can be an expensive mistake.
• The claim could have been moved to closed status because the minerals were never open to location in that area.
• It could be that the area is no longer open to mining claim location even though the now closed claim was valid. This is particularly true of areas around the major gold bearing rivers in California.

The Briceburg area in particular and most of the Merced River was closed to new claims by 1992. Between the recreational withdrawals and the wild and scenic river designation you would be hard pressed to find any land within 1/4 mile of the Merced River open to location. There are existing valid claims there currently but they all predate the mineral withdrawals.

Heavy Pans

 

[KevinInColorado]

Yes you should try writing some letters. Can’t hurt to ask and you may just make a new friend and prospecting buddy!

 

[aaronburrsir]

be that the area is no longer open to mining claim location even though the now closed claim was valid. This is particularly true of areas around the major gold bearing rivers in California.
[/LIST]
The Briceburg area in particular and most of the Merced River was closed to new claims by 1992. Between the recreational withdrawals and the wild and scenic river designation you would be hard pressed to find any land within 1/4 mile of the Merced River open to location. There are existing valid claims there currently but they all predate the mineral withdrawals.

Heavy Pans

Thanks! This is actually super helpful. It would also make sense as to why Section 10 hasn't had an active claim on it for a while.

How would one learn if an area has been withdrawn from mineral rights?

 

[Clay Diggins]

Thanks! This is actually super helpful. It would also make sense as to why Section 10 hasn't had an active claim on it for a while.

How would one learn if an area has been withdrawn from mineral rights?

You are welcome, I'm glad it helped.

The first step in looking for valuable minerals is to download and study the Master Title Plat (MTP) for the area you are interested in. The MTP is where you learn about withdrawn or restricted land status.

The MTP is the federal government's official map of all the controlling land status details for every Township. You can download those directly from the Land Matters Land Status Maps.

MTP's use their own notation to designate land status so you will need to learn what all those notes and lines mean on the map. To get that information you can stop by the Land Matters Land Status Tutorials section. There is a simplified reference diagram there to give you a quick head start as well as books and videos for when you are ready to dig a little deeper.

The most effective and efficient way to look for mineral areas open to location is to:

1. Download and study the MTP to see if the area is open to location and if there are any other restrictions.
2. Study the Land Matters Mining Claims Maps and download and study the linked BLM serial pages for each ACTIVE mining claim.
3. Get copies of all the Mining Claim Location Notices and Amendments from the County Recorder. Check for new locations in your area. Plot all those mining claims onto a topo map of the area.
4. Put boots on the ground to check the location of current claims and find any new claims not yet recorded with the County. Adjust your map accordingly.

Then you can prospect those areas you found open to location and get rich from your discovery.

Buy new boots and a fresh shovel with your new found wealth and you can start over again. Rinse and repeat until you are too old to get your boots on and dig. - Now you are a miner!

It's tempting to jump in and prospect when you see a good area with few claims. If you skip step 1. and don't study the MTP before you start steps 2. - 4. you can find you've put a lot of effort into something that isn't going to work.

You are lucky, you've found out about MTPs early in your learning curve. Every month I see many invalidated claims because they were located on withdrawn, restricted or private lands because the prospector didn't check the MTP first.

Hopefully your questions and this thread can help others who stumble in after you and I have already learned this stuff. It's just one of the sets of skills successful prospectors have had to learn for hundreds of years. With the internet we can do this stuff a lot quicker than in the old days but the job requirements haven't changed.

Good luck on your search for a paying claim and ...

Heavy Pans

 

[Wiggler]

Here is a link that shows which rivers in Calif are "wild and scenic" . If they are designated as such , you cannot get a closed claim there. There are probably active claims located there but once they go delinquent , they can never be claimed again . My understanding is that the only way to get a claim in one of these designated areas is to purchase an active claim from a claim owner.

https://www.rivers.gov/california.php

 

[mofugly13]

My understanding is that just because its wild and scenic, and you cannot stake a claim, you still can prospect. Is this true?

 

[aaronburrsir]

My understanding is that just because its wild and scenic, and you cannot stake a claim, you still can prospect. Is this true?

that was my next question.

 

[N-Lionberger]

I do.

 

[Clay Diggins]

My understanding is that just because its wild and scenic, and you cannot stake a claim, you still can prospect. Is this true?

You would have to read the withdrawal legislation to know. I've read the vast majority of them and haven't found any that limited prospecting. See below how to do that from the map.

Wilderness areas are also open to prospecting by law.

Land Matters does map the Wild, Scenic and Recreational Rivers and breaks them down as to which classification (W,S or R) each segment is designated as.

There are big differences on use restrictions for the different classes. You can read about each withdrawal and segment from links in the map information window as well as download the public act that created the segment.

There are very few rivers that are entirely designated as Wild and Scenic so look over the map to see just what part of a river has been withdrawn. Often it's only a few miles and not the entire river system.

Heavy Pans

 

[aaronburrsir]

I found the specific amendment:

"With respect to the segments of the main stem of the Merced River and the South Fork Merced River designated as recreational or scenic pursuant to this paragraph or by the appropriate agency pursuant to subsection (b), the minerals to Federal lands which constitute the bed or bank or are situated within one-quarter mile of the bank are hereby withdrawn, subject to valid existing rights, from all forms of appropriation under the mining laws and from operation of the mineral leasing laws including, in both cases, amendments thereto."

The area in question I'm looking at is considered Recreational. My understanding is that this means you're no longer able to make new claims, and when old claims expire on the recreational segments, that means they're also gone. Considering this would be non-commercial mining at this point, would only panning be allowed? Or would no mining (both commercial and non-commercial) be strictly disallowed?

FWIW I found this page Panning for Gold Free in California which states "Several areas within the jurisdiction of the Mother Lode Field Office, however, are available for casual prospecting: the South Fork of the Yuba River and the lower Merced River. Gold seekers who use the traditional shovel and pan can try their luck in these areas without having to get permission."

I found this interesting as well "Permits are required for the Merced River, open to limited recreational dredging in the Briceburg area off of Highway 140. Permits are issued for a two week period. Please contact the BLM Mother Lode Field Office for permit information." If dredging is allowed with a permit, then it makes me wonder if shovel/pan/sluice is allowed without a permit.

At this point, I think I'm just going to email the mother lode field office to get a better clarification.

 

[Clay Diggins]

I found the specific amendment:

"With respect to the segments of the main stem of the Merced River and the South Fork Merced River designated as recreational or scenic pursuant to this paragraph or by the appropriate agency pursuant to subsection (b), the minerals to Federal lands which constitute the bed or bank or are situated within one-quarter mile of the bank are hereby withdrawn, subject to valid existing rights, from all forms of appropriation under the mining laws and from operation of the mineral leasing laws including, in both cases, amendments thereto."

The area in question I'm looking at is considered Recreational. My understanding is that this means you're no longer able to make new claims, and when old claims expire on the recreational segments, that means they're also gone. Considering this would be non-commercial mining at this point, would only panning be allowed? Or would no mining (both commercial and non-commercial) be strictly disallowed?

FWIW I found this page Panning for Gold Free in California which states "Several areas within the jurisdiction of the Mother Lode Field Office, however, are available for casual prospecting: the South Fork of the Yuba River and the lower Merced River. Gold seekers who use the traditional shovel and pan can try their luck in these areas without having to get permission."

I found this interesting as well "Permits are required for the Merced River, open to limited recreational dredging in the Briceburg area off of Highway 140. Permits are issued for a two week period. Please contact the BLM Mother Lode Field Office for permit information." If dredging is allowed with a permit, then it makes me wonder if shovel/pan/sluice is allowed without a permit.

At this point, I think I'm just going to email the mother lode field office to get a better clarification.

I would rely on the actual wording of the law rather than the opinion of an a agency employee who is not legally responsible for any advice they may give you.

It's interesting that the BLM suggests the lower Merced river is open to prospecting. The lower Merced refers to that portion of the river below Lake McClure. Above lake McClure all the way from Bagby to below the lake at Merced Falls is under the jurisdiction of the BOR - not the BLM. Below Merced Falls is all private property or State park. The BLM doesn't manage any portion of the lower Merced river.

Kinda makes you wonder if the BLM just wants to misdirect prospectors with bad information or they aren't very good at understanding what land they manage?

Heavy Pans

 

[Tanneyhill]

I would rely on the actual wording of the law rather than the opinion of an a agency employee who is not legally responsible for any advice they may give you.

It's interesting that the BLM suggests the lower Merced river is open to prospecting. The lower Merced refers to that portion of the river below Lake McClure. Above lake McClure all the way from Bagby to below the lake at Merced Falls is under the jurisdiction of the BOR - not the BLM. Below Merced Falls is all private property or State park. The BLM doesn't manage any portion of the lower Merced river.

Kinda makes you wonder if the BLM just wants to misdirect prospectors with bad information or they aren't very good at understanding what land they manage?

Heavy Pans

Apparently you can apply for a permit under § 423.50 Subpart D to engage in activities that are otherwise prohibited on BOR land.

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CFR-2017-title43-vol1/xml/CFR-2017-title43-vol1-part423.xml#seqnum423.50

Does anyone have any experience with permits on BOR land?

Let's say you've done research about a cache that is now on BOR land. You can search for this cache without a permit so long as you don't use a metal detector, but without a metal detector you are likely not going to make much progress. You can apply for a permit for permission but unsure how likely the agency will grant it to you. Anyone have any experience with this sort of thing? Appreciate the feedback. Ty.

 

[spillercanyon]

New to gold everything. I've been doing a lot of research on the Briceburg area and I notice that a lot of the historical gold producing spots on Merced river are pretty well claimed up. I also noticed that you can go into the BLM database and find names/addresses of who currently owns the claim.

I'm considering sending some of them an actual real life letter asking for permission for basic panning/sluicing and I'm wondering if others have done the same, or if it's easier to find/contact claim owners some other way. Obviously I have zero interest in claim jumping and will do everything above board and would never in my life do stuff without permission, including not doing anything if they said no. I would also offer to pay for day access etc.

Also I have been able to find some areas that aren't claimed currently but historically have closed claims.

General Claim Question
If a claim is currently marked as "closed" and the most recent claim history indicates either a claim being forfeited or a claim being declared as "null and void" does that mean that the area then becomes claimable by anyone again?

Local clubs, not all of them but these are some of the big clubs in the area.
United Prospectors
AMRA
Delta Gold Diggers

This is a blm map of open prospecting near Briceburg, the pdf can be found at:

https://www.blm.gov/sites/blm.gov/files/documents/files/media-center-public-room-california-merced-river-recreation-map.pdf

Best of luck to you!!!

 

[Tanneyhill]

Local clubs, not all of them but these are some of the big clubs in the area.
United Prospectors
AMRA
Delta Gold Diggers

This is a blm map of open prospecting near Briceburg, the pdf can be found at:

https://www.blm.gov/sites/blm.gov/files/documents/files/media-center-public-room-california-merced-river-recreation-map.pdf

Best of luck to you!!!

How can we tell what is open from that pdf map? It doesn't really show whats claimed and whats open. Appreciate the feedback. Ty.

I tried to use LandMatters to download MTP files but it seems the General Land Office documents come in a .J2 file that I can't seem to open on my macbook. I tried so many different applications and they all throw up file format cannot be interpreted or the file is corrupted. I even uploaded to gmail and it cannot interpret it either. Seems like the files are all corrupt. Anyone have similar problems with the MTP files?

 

[Clay Diggins]

I tried to use LandMatters to download MTP files but it seems the General Land Office documents come in a .J2 file that I can't seem to open on my macbook. I tried so many different applications and they all throw up file format cannot be interpreted or the file is corrupted. I even uploaded to gmail and it cannot interpret it either. Seems like the files are all corrupt. Anyone have similar problems with the MTP files?

Most states now provide their MTPs in JP2 (jpeg 2000) format. This is an extension of the JPEG format with better compression. I think it's crappy that they use a file format that most people can't read but it is what it is. The files aren't corrupted.

All my Macs read the JP2 format fine with the native Preview app. Preview can read, convert and save in the JP2 format. I'm running version 10.00 of Preview maybe you have an earlier version?