Pillars and Portraits

[divewrecks]

I thought it would be a good idea to start a thread on Spanish pillar and portrait coins since many of us here appreciate Spanish colonial, shipwreck and pirate coins in general. Plus they evolved from the same mints that began their coinage striking cobs by hand....

Stan

 

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[divewrecks]

Hey Dread, do you have the auction catalog from the big Rooswijk sale? If not you should probably keep an eye out for a copy....

Stan

 

[Diver_Down]

Below is the quote from the eBay picks thread. Just trying to tidy up the forum and continue the discussion over here.

hi again

yep that's me as highest bidder, my interest in pillar 8`s comes from the rooswijk wreck they are of course very expencive
the oldest on the ship were from 1732 (first year issue for pillar dollar) with f (Felipe Rivas Angulo as the assayer 1732-1733)
it then when to MF 1733-1754 Manuel De Leon and Antonio De la Pena y Flores the Rooswijk coins weree estimated to be 75% pillar dollars and 25% cobs (according to Ernie Richards in his book: Shipwrecks and their coins vol 4 the 1740 Dutch East indiaman rooswijk)

anywho enough for now
dread

Dread, what do you think of my Pillar Dollar that I posted here? http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,300091.0.html

 

[Diver_Down]

very nice 8, for a pillar to spend 228 years on the wreck and be in that condition wow!
your a lucky guy what did you pay for it if you dont mind me asking?
i am not 100% sure but but did the Hollandia Vliegenthart and Rooswijk all come form the same ship yard or were in fact sister ships?

 

[divewrecks]

Just to help kick of this thread a few screw press Ebay picks....

Pretty little 2 reale....
http://cgi.ebay.com/MEXICO-UNDER-SPAIN-2-REALES-PHILIP-V-1740-CONDITION_W0QQitemZ260561427729

Obviously a wreck coin, but not advertised as such....
http://cgi.ebay.com/OLD-U-S-COLONIAL-1740-SPAIN-4-REALES-SILVER-RARE_W0QQitemZ130371076421

If you can't afford the real thing. Note seller location....
http://cgi.ebay.com/Replica-Spain-8-reales-1741-MF_W0QQitemZ380211169050

Which is the mint mark on this portrait coin?
http://cgi.ebay.com/INDIAN-HEAD-CENTS-SILVER-COIN-Dug-using-Metal-Detector_W0QQitemZ260561094367

How about an "official" pendant....
http://cgi.ebay.com/1740-MEXICO-8-REALES-SHIPWRECK-COIN-IN-OFFICIAL-PENDANT_W0QQitemZ350321248953

Stan

 

[dread]

hi all
found some Rooswijk pillar coins
first is a 4 reales a bit worn buy the sea
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350307994583&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

the second is in very good condition and the price to match also a "4"
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350296427301&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

also has 5 cobs up for grabs

a nice non sea salvaged "8"
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350318108259&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Hi Guys, My favorite is the Pillar dollar, I think it is a work of art. Beautifully made with anti fraud features just like your credit card
The Bust or Portrait dollar is not one of my favorites, It was not to flattering for the king. My next favorite is the US silver dollar, I love the American
eagle, I have one dated 1880.
Here is my Pillar and Portrait dollars.
Sam

 

[Diver_Down]

Very nice Pillar, Sam. I agree with you, the Portrait was not at all flattering to the King.

 

[divewrecks]

Here is my Pillar and Portrait dollars.
Sam

Sam, that thing is too perfect. You sure it isn't Chinese?

Stan

 

[divewrecks]

Does this mount hurt the value?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Nice-Spanish-Holed-8-Reale-Coin_W0QQitemZ360239873253

Strange assortment. I wonder if the coins were in the "leader" bag?....
http://cgi.ebay.com/ACIENT-TREASURE-SILVER-SHIPWRECK-COINS_W0QQitemZ300402614321

Stan

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Thanks Diver Down, I like yours as well, great condition for ship wreck.
Stan, only the box it came in. Stan which dates are more valuable in Pillar dollars.
Sam

 

[divewrecks]

Stan, only the box it came in. Stan which dates are more valuable in Pillar dollars.
Sam

1732 is the first year of milled production and the holy grail of Mexican issues. Most of the known examples were recovered from the 1733 fleet wrecks in the upper Florida Keys. Milled coinage was subsequently produced at six other mints beginning in the following years: Lima (1751), Santiago (1751), Guatemala (1754), Bogata (1759), Potosi (1767), and Popayan (1769). According to Sedwick "The pillar dollars of Santiago (Chile) are extremely rare and those of Popayan (Columbia, minted only one year) are probably fictional". There are probably some rare issue dates at the other mints that maybe someone else can comment on. In 1772 the pillar design was replaced by the bust (ugly) design.

Stan

 

[divewrecks]

Nice little guide on pillar fakes by a reputable seller from Austria....
http://reviews.ebay.com/Fake-8-Real...-how-to-avoid-them_W0QQugidZ10000000009793708

Stan

 

[divewrecks]

Baby pillar....
http://cgi.ebay.com/OLD-US-COINS-1759-MEXICO-SILVER-PILLAR-1-2-REALES_W0QQitemZ400106154475

Stan

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Colonial Coinage of Spanish America ( Source, Standard catalog of world Coins )
The pillar dollar, perhaps the most popular and arguably the most beautiful of all Spanish colonial coinage, is reminiscent of the pillars-and-waves cobs in that it bears pillars above waves on the reverse.
Between the pillars, however, are two globes, representing the Old world and the New World, with the motto VTRAQUE VNUM ("and we are one") in the
legend.
The obverse, as on the cobs, bears the arms of Castile and Leon, but this time in a crowned shield. The pillar dollar was unique to the Spanish colonies but gained worldwide acceptance - a true "trade dollar" that was even legal tender in the early United States until 1857.
Three new mints began operation in the pillar-dollar era: Guatemala; Santiago, Chile; and Popayan, Colombia. Guatemala, however, apparently had the
pillar-dollar dies (and bust-type dies in the gold) but not the apparatus, as the Guatemala issues from 1733-1753 were all handmade and crude and
therefore are considered cobs.
The pillar dollars of Santiago are extremely rare, and those of popayan are probably fictional.
Sam

 

[divewrecks]

Pretty cool. I like mine better though. I'll try to post it soon....

http://cgi.ebay.com/Coin-Art-18th-C-Spanish-8-Reales-Pendant_W0QQitemZ200456445396

Somebody is good with a hack saw!

Stan

 

[dread]

hi all i have 2 portraits
the first is 1797,Carrolus the 4th,mexico mint,assayer F.M

the second is a 1783,Carrolus the 3rd,cant read mint,assayer F
from the wreck of the El Cazador

 

[divewrecks]

Pretty cool. I like mine better though. I'll try to post it soon....

http://cgi.ebay.com/Coin-Art-18th-C-Spanish-8-Reales-Pendant_W0QQitemZ200456445396

Somebody is good with a hack saw!

Stan

OK, finally got around to it. Here is mine....

Stan

 

[divewrecks]

"We will do our upmost (sic) to solve the problem and give you a satisfying answer."....

http://cgi.ebay.com/1733-FINE-PILLLAR-8-REALES-FERNANDO-VI-COIN-/170496561473

Like "Sorry dude, you got screwed"?

Stan

 

[Mackaydon]

Stan;
That's a beauty; thanks for posting.
Don....