pewter bugle cap badge piece?

[scratcher]

I'm pretty sure this an early bugle badge piece. I haven't had any replies on todays finds, so maybe someone can help here. Evidently, both the US and British infantry wore bugle cap badges during the 1812 period. The photos of all the British versions have the big end of the bugle facing left as you look at it. I can't find any US examples. The US infantry switched to the crossed rifles later in the 1800's. Can anyone help me determine which, if either, this is? It is flat on the back and pewter. Thanks

 

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[DCMatt]

Nice bunch of relics. I looked but could not find a US version of the horn badge - only UK examples. And they all faced the other way. Maybe there was no special badge for US trumpeter/bugler. I don't know.

The closest I saw was a civilian fox hunting pin (modern reproduction).

DCMatt

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I see you found one of Buckleboys brass thingys. http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,175963.0.html

 

[scratcher]

I see you found one of Buckleboys brass thingys. http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,175963.0.html

Yea that is the umpteenth one. Every time I turn one of these up I scream &%#$ two-holers! (They sound like a coin every time)

 

[Woodland Detectors]

Very nice finds!
I like the Jews harp!

 

[Montana Jim]

No... It is not a U.S. Army Infantry bugle horn - IMO

I can see however how it might look like one... lots of pics on the net to review...

 

[scratcher]

No... It is not a U.S. Army Infantry bugle horn - IMO

I can see however how it might look like one... lots of pics on the net to review...

What do they look like , MJ? Here is a pic of an early 1800's UK reproduction. I thought it might make sense if they made the US version opposite to be 'different'

 

[Montana Jim]

The one you posted is not a U.S. Horn... which is all I addressed. Just Google "US Infantry bugle hat badge".

I think the one you posted is a British Light Infantry badge... I do think that is closer than the US bugle. Another example is here...

http://www.northeastmedals.co.uk/british_regiment/oxfordshire_and_buckinghamshire_light_infantry.htm

I do think this is what you have - the right side of a broken British bugle badge/medal.

 

[scratcher]

The one you posted is not a U.S. Horn... which is all I addressed. Just Google "US Infantry bugle hat badge".

I think the one you posted is a British Light Infantry badge... I do think that is closer than the US bugle. Another example is here...

http://www.northeastmedals.co.uk/british_regiment/oxfordshire_and_buckinghamshire_light_infantry.htm

I do think this is what you have - the right side of a broken British bugle badge/medal.

I must be missing something, I still can't find an early US bugle badge when I google that. All I see are British and have the larger part of the bugle facing left? I do see some of the later brass CW era ones, though. I've thought all along it was probably UK but would like to see early US design to be sure. This is what got me started:

The uniforms of the American Revolution were very plain and there was little to no military branch identification insignia on the tri-corner hat. From the period of the War of 1812 until the Civil War (1861-1865), the United States Army Infantry regulations called for a bugle horn badge of slight variations on soldier's caps to identify the Infantry branch of the Army.

On November 19, 1875, the U. S. Army Regulations called for the crossed rifles insignia to replace the bugle as the cap badge of the U. S. Infantry, which followed the design traditions of the crossed sabers and cannons of the U. S. Army Cavalry and Artillery branches. By 1898, the crossed rifle insignia began appearing on the collars of U. S. Army infantry uniforms. Since 1898 to the present day, the crossed rifle insignia has been traditionally displayed on the collars of United States Army uniforms. However, the crossed rifles cap insignia has been replaced with other types of badge designs.

Reference: Urwin, Gregory J. W., The United States Infantry, An Illustrated History 1775-1918. New York: Sterling Publishing Co., Inc., 1988.

I would like to see the slight variations they are speaking of. Thanks for the input so far

 

[Montana Jim]

There are none facing left... not US Army anyway.

Oh sorry... I guess I needed to be more specific with the google search - I only got british/european stuff too.

Here... I'll just post one:

 

[scratcher]

There are none facing left... not US Army anyway.

Oh sorry... I guess I needed to be more specific with the google search - I only got british/european stuff too.

Here... I'll just post one:

Thanks for the work. I wonder if that's what the 1812 era design looks like also. I would drop this whole thing if we could find a UK example with the large part of the bugle facing to the right as you look at it.