Peralta Family

[Corporate Investigations]

Hello All

I do not know if this is relevant to Dutch hunters?

But in course of researching through old Colonial Spanish mining records for some thing else. I came a cross a document dating back to 1668. Mentioning a mine owned by Pablo de Molina Ordaz y Peralta?

Denuncio de una mina por Pablo de Molina Ordaz y Peralta.

Here is part of it below.





This document was source via The documents in the Gobierno y Administración section reflect the inner workings of the Spanish colonial system, and include a wide-range of documents on the governance of several communities of the north of Nueva España. The Gobierno y Administración section includes documents on mines and the granting of mines, petitions and disputes, labor and slavery, censuses and inventories, and the issuance and implementation of royal orders.

My question is. Was Pablo de Molina Ordaz y Peralta an ancestor of the later Peralta Family that was allegedly massacred in the 19th century?

Amy

 

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[deducer]

Hi Amy, and welcome back. Your solid research is always appreciated.

The surname, Peralta, is (as I understand it) fairly common in Mexico, almost as common as "Smith" is in this country. So, that one might be hard to track down.

But, if he was located anywhere near Arizpe, Mexico, I would say the chances are pretty high.

 

[Azquester]

Hi also Amy. What stands out to me is not the name "Peralta" but the name "Molina" as in the
"Molina Redotero" or Treasure Document.

Keep up the great research!



View attachment 1648344

 

[gollum]

Hey Amy,

Glad you're back. Hope married life is going well for you. Old Crow told me you had a new job. Hope you're enjoying that as well.

Anything in the North of Nueva Espana (or Pimeria Alta) would likely be related. The mining Peraltas are the mining Peraltas. Nobody knows exactly when the Peralta Family got the land grant (if they ever did) that encompasses the Superstitions. Since this document predates all the Jesuit Santa Cruz Missions, any evidence of specific mine info would have likely been in Santa Fe. After the Pueblo Revolt of 1680, that evidence was likely destroyed by the Indios. If the mine info was filed in Ciudad Mexico or maybe even one of the Northern Missions established prior to the 1660s. Last hope for specifics would be Seville.

Mike

 

[sdcfia]

Per the following records, that particular mine was located in Parral, which was a booming silver district in the 17th century.

Numero Inventario: AHMP.FC.A17.013.243
Seccion: Gobierno y administración
Serie: Minas y terrenos
Lugar: Real de San José del Parral
Fecha Inicio: 03/10/1668
Titulo: Denuncio de una mina por Pablo de Molina Ordaz y Peralta.

https://dokumen.site/download/catalogo-fondo-colonial-a5b39f0a475732

 

[Corporate Investigations]

Hello Sdcfia

Rightly so Parral was a rich sliver mining district in its own right. Lugar meaning place. Parral was the place of registration. As was other places under the title of lugar but not necessary the location of the of mine. Many indeed was in Parral as you right pointed out. Many mines from other areas are registered in Parral. You will notice in document description in some mentioning the mine and location. Some show it some do not.

The Document was place of storage ( Parral Arichive)

The Fondo Colonial collection of the Archivo Históricos Municipal de Hidalgo del Parral (Parral Archive), spans a period between 1611 and 1821 and contains the civil colonial records of the Province of Nueva Viscaya, which today consists of the states of Chihuahua, Durango, Sonora, Sinaloa and part of Coahuila. Hidalgo del Parral was the unofficial capital for Nueva Viscaya for over 100 years, from the 1632s to the 1738s, and has the largest collection of Spanish colonial documents in northern Mexico.

Not all have been digitized or preserved as others here have rightly mentioned some documents have been destroyed either by war or neglect. The archive has barely 5% digitized. As its an ongoing project. However funding the project is always an issue at best of times. Especially in mexico a much poorer country. But the archive is slowly evolving.

But for anyone interested in Tayopa, Superstition mountain. Mining new in mexico, Tumacocori stories etc... it may be a gold mine for research.

Amy

 

[JohnWhite]

It is where one finds it Amy...

I still proclaim that Tayopa is to be found in Nueva Vizcaya...But what do I know

Ed T

 

[Corporate Investigations]

Hello Again

Two things to be aware when looking at original documents. Archaic Place name in context to Century in question and Spanish language. Most is written in fact dictated secretarial Spanish and few formal Spanish. Depending on Author and like old English with older documents, some words are spelled differently reflecting the spelling of era and educational standards of the time.

Gollum

I last saw Uncle Crow at my sister in laws wedding. Crow has big bushy beard these days that would even give blackbeard a run for his money although it brown and grey. Hes been under strict instructions not to post anymore. As with the rest of trio. He is my uncle by marriage and been some times unjustly branded the pirate by the rest of the family. But after years of roaming the world he has family commitments these days.

However the old self does not need much encouraging. :-) Officially not working at all. My mother in law says while he always looks like a tramp and cries poor be not be fooled he is loaded. He gave all his family thousands and thousands of dollars just recently.

For me I and my husband have a little boy now. A new house and new career. With the trio you never fully know what they are up to? None them work as we know it. They just do their own thing on their own terms under the radar. Governments hate them as they cannot prove any incrimination against them. And on the rare occasions they can they have to incriminate themselves.

My visit here is only short just to make you aware of the archive above and research potential for those seeking documents relating to American south west and Northern mexico.

Amy

 

[Corporate Investigations]

Hello John or Ed?

You are correct. Province of Nueva Viscaya, which today consists of the states of Chihuahua, Durango, Sonora, Sinaloa and part of Coahuila.

Amy

 

[JohnWhite]

I know I am correct Amy...I have been there and I have ore from the site...lol...It is a platinum real located in said location...Of course there is gold and silver involved with said real...But that is another story...Said real is an old real de minas and one day you may find some deleted information about said real...It was ordered closed and wiped from the records by a Royal decree...

Who knows...Maybe one day the platinum real may be discovered in Nueva Viscaya...

Ed T

 

[Corporate Investigations]

Deducer.

Thank you for the reply. Arizpe, Mexico rings bell but I cannot quite remember seeing a document. But I read through thousand of documents all as you can imagine are difficult to read. I will keep eye on any Peraltas from that area.

Amy

 

[Corporate Investigations]

Hello bill

you might even also find in that archive mines pertaining to Tumacocori ?

Amy

 

[Corporate Investigations]

Gollum

I am not sure about documents pertaining to pre 1611? That 50 odd year window of time many documents most likely never survived from that date. Its good to know that record keeping and indexing of those records evolved over time. Many records was badly stored rotted away with damp and each archive had there own standard of indexing. Strange enough as expected myself thought most documents northern mexico was kept in Mexico city? It was not the case. Most went to Parral after 1611 to the time of independence. Parral the largest assumed records of smaller archives of mining registrations.

The problem is for mexico the digitization program is slow and costly for them. But one day all the records will be digitized. The ones already scanned are part of cross selection of documents. So its quite possible in time more documents will come released.

Amy

 

[Holyground]

Seems my memory banks are feeding me some line about how the Peraltas recieved a land grant from the church and not the king. The king rescinded the grant? I don't even remember where I read that. I know there was someone named Peralta that had a mining claim or two, in California? I do not believe any Peralta had anything to do with the Stone Maps. My first clue is that there is nothing to prove that.

 

[gollum]

Gollum

I am not sure about documents pertaining to pre 1611? That 50 odd year window of time many documents most likely never survived from that date. Its good to know that record keeping and indexing of those records evolved over time. Many records was badly stored rotted away with damp and each archive had there own standard of indexing. Strange enough as expected myself thought most documents northern mexico was kept in Mexico city? It was not the case. Most went to Parral after 1611 to the time of independence. Parral the largest assumed records of smaller archives of mining registrations.

The problem is for mexico the digitization program is slow and costly for them. But one day all the records will be digitized. The ones already scanned are part of cross selection of documents. So its quite possible in time more documents will come released.

Amy

Good to hear everybody is doing well. Congratulations on the baby!

Yes, pre-1611 is tough. The first Jesuits didnt hit the beaches until just a couple of years before that. I believe their first mission was in 1608. I think a lot of the VERY OLD stuff (like Crow's Beard) could be found in the Archivo de los Indios in Cuba. Maybe even Seville. We found mine records for a mine near the city of Prescott, Arizona in the mission records of San Xavier del Bac in the DRSW (Desert Relations of the SouthWest). We found the mine corner markers picked into the rocks, then lo and behold, those same markers were registered at the mission. Luckily, most of the mission records of Southern Arizona are digitized and available online. Just have to know what to look for. HAHAHA

Take Care,

Mike

 

[sdcfia]

Good to hear everybody is doing well. Congratulations on the baby!

Yes, pre-1611 is tough. The first Jesuits didnt hit the beaches until just a couple of years before that. I believe their first mission was in 1608. I think a lot of the VERY OLD stuff (like Crow's Beard) could be found in the Archivo de los Indios in Cuba. Maybe even Seville. We found mine records for a mine near the city of Prescott, Arizona in the mission records of San Xavier del Bac in the DRSW (Desert Relations of the SouthWest). We found the mine corner markers picked into the rocks, then lo and behold, those same markers were registered at the mission. Luckily, most of the mission records of Southern Arizona are digitized and available online. Just have to know what to look for. HAHAHA

Take Care,

Mike

You must be referring to the French Jesuits, who became active in Nova Scotia and Quebec in the very early 1600s. The Spanish Jesuit period began a bit late in the game, the 1680s in Mexico and today's Arizona. The missing records removed/destroyed from the Palace of the Governors in Santa Fe following the 1680 revolt (mentioned in Post #$) would have been Franciscan and would not have included any Jesuit documents unless, ironically, it would have been referencing French activities in southern Colorado during the 1700s.

Got any photos of those old mining claim corners near Prescott?

 

[gollum]

You must be referring to the French Jesuits, who became active in Nova Scotia and Quebec in the very early 1600s. The Spanish Jesuit period began a bit late in the game, the 1680s in Mexico and today's Arizona. The missing records removed/destroyed from the Palace of the Governors in Santa Fe following the 1680 revolt (mentioned in Post #$) would have been Franciscan and would not have included any Jesuit documents unless, ironically, it would have been referencing French activities in southern Colorado during the 1700s.

Got any photos of those old mining claim corners near Prescott?

The first wave of Jesuits got to Peru in 1571. One of them wrote a book that was published in 1590 (Historia natural y moral de las Indias)
that was based on fifteen years of being there:



I will have to look for the specifics, but I believe the first Jesuits North of there were about 1608.

I dont have pics of the mine registers, but they found them by what was later named the BLUEBELL MINE in the Bradshaws. I will see what I can do about getting them.

Mike

 

[azdave35]

The first wave of Jesuits got to Peru in 1571. One of them wrote a book that was published in 1590 (Historia natural y moral de las Indias)
that was based on fifteen years of being there:

View attachment 1649692

I will have to look for the specifics, but I believe the first Jesuits North of there were about 1608.

I dont have pics of the mine registers, but they found them by what was later named the BLUEBELL MINE in the Bradshaws. I will see what I can do about getting them.

Mike

is that the same bluebell mine west of mayer?
'

 

[Al D]

Andres Perez de Ribas, S.J. was in Sonora in 1644

 

[sdcfia]

Andres Perez de Ribas, S.J. was in Sonora in 1644

You're right, I stand corrected. I forgot about those guys who tried to convert the Yaquis in Sonora for a while - even earlier than 1644, I think.