Park cop encounter

[scrubber]

Yesterday I had my first less-than-comfortable encounter with a city park rules enforcer (khaki uniform, badge and all). I was MDing the parking lot (good place for coins with 3-inch gravel surface). He approached and asked if I'm having any luck. I gave my standard "a few pennies" answer and he said, "If you find jewelry, you'll turn it over to the park office, right?" I smiled and said, "Maybe." He said, "Well it beats going to jail." I didn't respond to that. I wanted to ask what law says I'm stealing if I keep something I've found on public property with there being no law against metal detecting, but I chose to ignore the comment and research local city laws. I've found nothing covering that scenario. I think the guy was bitter about flunking out of mall-cop school and was trying to intimidate me.

Has anyone had a similar thing happen, or know of any city laws where you live making that a crime?

scrubber

 

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[savant365]

Well thats a new one LOL

I think some places do have laws that if you find something of value or $$$ over a certain amount you are required to turn it in to the police. If no one claims it after a certain period of time then it's yours. Maybe there is some local ordinance like that where you live?

One more reason to keep quiet if you make a good find.

HH Charlie

 

[mts]

I would have acted surprised and then asked "what do you mean, going to jail?". Then he has to explain himself. He was either kidding and you didn't get the joke, had a specific regulation in mind, or was trying to intimidate you in some way. Now you'll never know the real reason. I would say that if he was trying to intimidate you that you should go to his superiors and have his ass busted. There is no excuse for that type of behavior. However, that's probably not a battle you want to get into and it's best to just let it go.

 

[shaun7]

he's probably been bullied all his life!

also sounds like little man syndrome, was he small?

 

[Seamuss]

I politely ask what the law is and what the penalty is and wait for an informative answer. If he cannot give me the right answer then I would let him know that I worked security for some law offices and intimidation is illegal.

 

[scrubber]

I politely ask what the law is and what the penalty is and wait for an informative answer. If he cannot give me the right answer then I would let him know that I worked security for some law offices and intimidation is illegal.

I reacted to him in a similar way that I've learned to react to real cops. I don't argue with them or make it look like I'm trying to show them up. I've found that you just don't win in that kind of situation. All I would do is tick him off if I asked him to quote the law. After all, he could just kick me out. They do have that power, whether we like to think so or not.

That's one of my favorite detecting places and I'm sure we'll meet again. I plan to be armed with knowledge of the local statutes when that happens instead of guessing that I'm right. But one thing's for sure. Any valuables I find, other than coins, will not go in my collecting pouch. I've already adopted that practice some time ago for various reasons.

scrubber

 

[kimsdad]

I don't know what part of the country you are in, but in Illinois there is a "Theft Of Lost Or Mislaid Property" law. Other places may have similar laws. Here's the text of the law:

(720 ILCS 5/16‑2) (from Ch. 38, par. 16‑2)
Sec. 16‑2. Theft of lost or mislaid property.
A person who obtains control over lost or mislaid property commits theft when he:
(a) Knows or learns the identity of the owner or knows, or is aware of, or learns of a reasonable method of identifying the owner, and
(b) Fails to take reasonable measures to restore the property to the owner, and
(c) Intends to deprive the owner permanently of the use or benefit of the property.
(d) Sentence.
Theft of lost or mislaid property is a petty offense.
(Source: P. A. 78‑255.)

Around these parts, its usually used when you catch someone keeping the property of another when you don't have enough evidence to prove that they actually stole it. You get caught with someone else's license plate in your trunk, you get caught with someone else's wallet in your car and the owner says that it was either stolen or lost - you get the idea. They claim they found it a few days ago. They're not stupid enough to say they took it, but not smart enough to say that they were on the way to the police station to turn it in. They are shady and up to something. You don't have enough evidence to pin the theft on them, but you know they're not squeaky clean and innocent. In IL it's a petty offense - meaning a fine only.

This law isn't enforced a lot, and is best used with common sense and discretion. Sounds like whoever you ran into might have been lacking one or both of those, and maybe was a little "lacking in the knowledge", (there, will that get through the censor where the i-word wouldn't?) of the area's laws, too. Any knowledge you have is power in situations like that.

Maybe he wanted to be sure that anything valuable was checked against a "reported lost" list. I seem to remember Iowa state parks have a rule where anything valued over a certain amount had to be turned in to the ranger... More government = less fun.

Folks on T-Net take more than reasonable steps to ID the owners of lost items when possible - just look at all the class rings that have been returned to their rightful owners.

Other than that, you're digging through 3" of compacted gravel? Man that sounds like hard work!!!

 

[scrubber]

Maybe he wanted to be sure that anything valuable was checked against a "reported lost" list.  I seem to remember Iowa state parks have a rule where anything valued over a certain amount had to be turned in to the ranger...     More government = less fun.

Folks on T-Net take more than reasonable steps to ID the owners of lost items when possible - just look at all the class rings that have been returned to their rightful owners.   

Other than that, you're digging through 3" of compacted gravel?    Man that sounds like hard work!!!

So in Iowa you turn it in above a certain value? How many of us would know the value upon finding it? If they stop me on the way out, I'll just say I'm heading to a jeweler to pay $75 to have the ring appraised (yeah, right!). Same thing goes for a rare item like a coin. I'm sorry folks but I feel that someone who spent the money for the equipment and invested the time looking has full right to an item lost by the public when it probably wouldn't have been found without that time and equipment. Yes, there are cases where I would and have turned it in to lost & found, like when walking through a restaurant, spotting it on the floor. I would also always return anything with ID, like a wallet. But I don't think the Iowa law should apply to metal detector finds. We invest a lot waiting for those finds to happen.

Oh, and the 3 inches of gravel isn't compacted. It's large loose gravel with a solid base under it -- quite easy to move and find items. But usually only newer coins are found there.

scrubber

 

[curbdiggercarl57]

Although there is nothing to find out here in Denver, I've had nothing but smiles and curious questions from the police out here.

 

[CrazyBones]

Here in Oregon, we have a lot of parks in town that are managed by a tax funded organization. I actually emailed it's director to see if they had any policies against metal detecting and received a very nice response. He not only gave full permission but thanked me for asking.

I printed it and will have it with me any time I MD on park property.

I'd recommend you contact who manages the park you were in and see if you can get more info.

 

[BIG61AL]

Two words that sum this up....

abandoned - anything that the owner has no reasonable expectation of return, IE, loose coins, pens, children's toys [small] usually low valve items but can include valuable items if no effort is made to report lost or a length of time has made the return to the rightfull owner impossible

lost [misplaced] - this would include items that the owner has a reasonable expectation of return where the missing item is reported ,IE, wallets, keys, jewelry of value, item that have a traceable serial number and the such.

This is how I approach the issue of reporting a found item of valve.

A mid level value silver coin [$5.00 or so] found in a public park in my opinion is abandoned, so is a non inscribed silver ring

 

[scrubber]

Although there is nothing to find out here in Denver, I've had nothing but smiles and curious questions from the police out here.

Same with me until yesterday. I'm in western Washington, near Seattle (this wasn't a Seattle park).

And to mts, no, he wasn't joking. He acted like Barney Fife on the old Andy Griffith Show busting Aunt Bea for jaywalking.

scrubber

 

[ivan salis]

could have been a shake down ---find anything of value --yah see this ring?--- uh law says anything over $50 has to be turned in --thanks I'lll take care of turning it in for you ---takes item --if you do not ask for a "reciept" or show up in a day or two asking about it --they "glam" it for themselves

like a cop that pulls over a doper with $5,000 cash on him ---cops says uh this money "seems" fishy like its dope money--- gotta go to the evidence locker --- you can come get it if you can prove its "legit" --- cops knows he can't and will not claim it ---cop never turns the cash in , he just snags the cash --- its a old racket .

 

[scrubber]

could have been a shake down ---find anything of value --yah see this ring?--- uh law says anything over $50 has to be turned in --thanks I'lll take care of turning it in for you ---takes item --if you do not ask for a "reciept" or show up in a day or two asking about it --they "glam" it for themselves

like a cop that pulls over a doper with $5,000 cash on him ---cops says uh this money "seems" fishy like its dope money--- gotta go to the evidence locker --- you can come get it if you can prove its "legit" --- cops knows he can't and will not claim it ---cop never turns the cash in , he just snags the cash --- its a old racket .

Don't think that didn't cross my mind. I'd want a receipt for it when I give it to anyone.

scrubber

 

[Gold_Needle]

Always carry decoy costum jewelry to hand over if you find something and someone else sees you put it in your pocket.

That way no arguement and they seem all powerful to themselves.

Needle

 

[truckinbutch]

Always carry decoy costum jewelry to hand over if you find something and someone else sees you put it in your pocket.

That way no arguement and they seem all powerful to themselves.

Needle

That's a very good idea that I never thought of ... Never let the left hand know what the right hand is doing

 

[Ant]

The California Law falls under the Lost Property Law. Lost property is just that, Lost Property. If you find it, it belongs to whoever lost it, even if it’s on Private Property. Just like a pet or farm animal, as a matter of fact, pets and inert property fall under the same Law.

The State Law says that anything that’s valued at $100.00 or more will be turned into the local Police, or whatever authority has jurisdiction. If you find something under $100.00 you are supposed to call and report it to the Authorities. Some jurisdictions will give it back to the finder after set requirements are met to find the owner, like putting an add in the paper. And if the looser doesn’t claim the property in 90 days the item is returned to the finder.

But more and more the Authorities or Municipalities will keep the item and auctioning it off, and then keep the proceeds. The city of Emeryville in the Bay Area dose if like that.


I got on the Authorities and Law Enforcements last nerve, that’s because I kept calling them about the clad I had found .

 

[scrubber]

I got on the Authorities and Law Enforcements last nerve, that’s because I kept calling them about the clad I had found .

Ha!!! I just quoted your post on the "what to do with them pennies" thread.

scrubber

 

[Monty]

Ivan I'm a little put out with the scenario where the cop steals the dopers money. The force I worked for for over 20 years if a cop did that he was called a convict. That so called drug money confiscated in that manner in my state goes into a fund to be divided among law enforcement including the prosecutors, City and State Law encorcement, and is earmarked to fight drug violations. I am sure it has happened just as you described but it is not a regular occurance to my knowledge.
Now about the rent-a-cop in the park. I can't believe I said that......The only law I am aware of concerning lake beaches is those operated by the Corps of Engineers. You are supposed to turn anything of value that is found at the corps office. But no one does it unless they know the owner and it is not enforceable, so it is pretty much ignored. The city law says it "may be turned in to the Police Department and held for 90 days, etc, etc......but the "may" makes it not mandatory. Monty

 

[scrubber]

Ivan I'm a little put out with the scenario where the cop steals the dopers money. The force I worked for for over 20 years if a cop did that he was called a convict. That so called drug money confiscated in that manner in my state goes into a fund to be divided among law enforcement including the prosecutors, City and State Law encorcement, and is earmarked to fight drug violations. I am sure it has happened just as you described but it is not a regular occurance to my knowledge.

I also do not expect that behavior to be the norm, but I would definitely insist on a written receipt for the object.

Now about the rent-a-cop in the park. I can't believe I said that......The only law I am aware of concerning lake beaches is those operated by the Corps of Engineers. You are supposed to turn anything of value that is found at the corps office. But no one does it unless they know the owner and it is not enforceable, so it is pretty much ignored. The city law says it "may be turned in to the Police Department and held for 90 days, etc, etc......but the "may" makes it not mandatory. Monty

The park in question does have a beach. I didn't notice who "Barney Fife" represented. I assumed the city but I think that park used to be outside the city, but city limits were recently expanded. So any or all of the city, county, state or the fed cops could get me I'm an old man -- I don't wanna die in jail!!

scrubber