paranoia will destroy ya

[bag and drag]

I never post but I must now speak.
you guys have got to chill out about this money laundering thing.everyone here sounds like a bunch of criminals discussing ways not to get caught.
things to remember:
1.this hobby is NOT illigal even if you dump over $10,000 twice a day as long as you are using legal money to begin with,to hell with SAR reports if you want to do that kind of volume.
2.If the FBI had a talk with me they would quickly deduse that I'm an oddball out looking for AG all the time but I have the legal income to support my hobby.
3.it is NOT illigal to own even huge piles of silver and you will never have to pay a penny in taxes until/unless you sell.
4.if big brother really does monitor this site the atmosphere here in the last few days will really throw up big red flags.it truly is a shame we now have to fear our own gov't.
4.Golden silver is in the navy and probably ranks over E-4 and has a security clearance,almost certainly why he was investigated.
someone said Obediah is a muslim? if so I can see why having a "muslim" sounding name or appearance and dealing with large amounts of cash would
trigger responce from the feds,thats sad but true in todays America.
most of us are just average shmos looking for a cheap thrill.

theres more but I'm tired of typing,for me its business as usual and if the FBI or whoever wants to talk I'll be happy to...on my own terms with a lawyer present. good luck and I hope you find them all. B&D

 

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[mistergee]

you guys have got to chill out about this money laundering thing.everyone here sounds like a bunch of criminals discussing ways not to get caught.

while i agree with most of what you are saying, you have to realize that when people are treated as criminals they will act like criminals. the scare of having Federal agents questioning you and asking to look in your home would tend to make most of us paranoid and take steps so as to avoid another encounter. are we doing anything wrong in this hobby? no. unless you count the fact that we got silver at face, sold it, and didn't report the profit. but how many of us are actually finding enough to make the minimum amount of profit to report? should we be afraid of our own Government? unless you have your head in the sand, the answer is yes. remember what our service men and women have to swear to when entering the service. "i swear to protect the U.S.A. from enemies both foreign and DOMESTIC".
and for people who believe the old saying that you are innocent until proven guilty, hasn't been on the recieving end of an accusation. you will spend exorbitant amounts of time in and out of court, missing work, spending most or all your hard earned money on lawyers, and have your name dragged through the mud. just ask any adult who has been accused of molesting a child and it turns out that the kid was lying because you wouldn't pass them in math class, or you holllared at them for something they did wrong. do you think that stigma of "child molester" will go away when they find out you are innocent?
what do you think GS's neighbors would think if they saw him talking to Federal agents. right away they start putting 2 and 2 together. " the Feds were here questioning him and i always see him bringing boxes of money in and out of his house everyday, he must be doing something wrong"
so in those instances i would say that we have a reason to be paranoid, and noone can blame us for taking steps to avoid ending up on the radar. if that makes us sound like criminals ....so be it.

unless you have your head in the sand

BTW this was not directed at you.

 

[GMan00001]

I never post but I must now speak.
you guys have got to chill out about this money laundering thing.everyone here sounds like a bunch of criminals discussing ways not to get caught.
things to remember:
1.this hobby is NOT illigal even if you dump over $10,000 twice a day as long as you are using legal money to begin with,to hell with SAR reports if you want to do that kind of volume.
2.If the FBI had a talk with me they would quickly deduse that I'm an oddball out looking for AG all the time but I have the legal income to support my hobby.
3.it is NOT illigal to own even huge piles of silver and you will never have to pay a penny in taxes until/unless you sell.
4.if big brother really does monitor this site the atmosphere here in the last few days will really throw up big red flags.it truly is a shame we now have to fear our own gov't.
4.Golden silver is in the navy and probably ranks over E-4 and has a security clearance,almost certainly why he was investigated.
someone said Obediah is a muslim? if so I can see why having a "muslim" sounding name or appearance and dealing with large amounts of cash would
trigger responce from the feds,thats sad but true in todays America.
most of us are just average shmos looking for a cheap thrill.

theres more but I'm tired of typing,for me its business as usual and if the FBI or whoever wants to talk I'll be happy to...on my own terms with a lawyer present. good luck and I hope you find them all. B&D

I agree with most/all of what you said. Personally, I am not worried in the least about the FBI, CIA, or whatever agency would actually be watching me. Then again I keep pretty good records of what I have been doing and I think I could justify pretty easily that I am truly a numismatist and not doing anything illegal.

To me posting on this board in many ways also goes a long way to proving your intent and why you are doing the transactions you are in way that leaves a historic record that you can go back to, if ever needed.

One minor correction to point #3, you will also never have to pay taxes unless you sell them for more than face value. You could always just choose to cash them in at a bank and let the next person to find them take the "tax hit".

 

[fistfulladirt]

I wonder how dealers get away without charging sales taxes on coin sales over face?

 

[jim4silver]

I wonder how dealers get away without charging sales taxes on coin sales over face?

Not all states allow sales tax on coins/PMs, although I know some do.

you guys have got to chill out about this money laundering thing.everyone here sounds like a bunch of criminals discussing ways not to get caught.

are we doing anything wrong in this hobby? no. unless you count the fact that we got silver at face, sold it, and didn't report the profit. but how many of us are actually finding enough to make the minimum amount of profit to report?

Who is "we" Mr. G? I claim any profits when I sell PMs (although I have not sold that much). There is no minimum threshold that must be met before you owe taxes on profits for selling coins/PMs. You have to report ALL net profits, unless for some reason your total yearly income is so low you don't have to file income taxes at all perhaps. I doubt anyone on this site would fit that category.

Most places take your info when you sell them PMs/coins in case the stuff is stolen. While they have no duty to file the appropriate IRS documents unless you sell relatively large amounts, they still have your info on how much you sold, date, what you were paid, etc. I would not be suprised if that info wound up in the hands of the IRS somehow.

Jim

 

[Fredness]

Agreed - however, without a certain measure of "paranoia" you can wind up knee deep in poop.

CYA - Keep records, play by the rules, don't piss off the bank and all is good, regardless of how much you buy/dump.

 

[47thelement]

I'm having fun on the beach! but it is cold. Oh yeah and in summer the Feds were bikinis with their dark sunglasses

 

[mistergee]

Who is "we" Mr. G? I claim any profits when I sell PMs (although I have not sold that much). There is no minimum threshold that must be met before you owe taxes on profits for selling coins/PMs. You have to report ALL net profits, unless for some reason your total yearly income is so low you don't have to file income taxes at all perhaps. I doubt anyone on this site would fit that category.

okay, okay, lets not get into a semantics battle. i used the term in general refering to us silver hunters and used the example in my reply to infer that IF we(CRHers) were doing anything wrong, then not reporting profits was all i could think of. i'm glad your covering your butt by paying taxes on all profits but i doubt everyone is doing it. not all coin is sold to dealers. some here sell to eachother and i doubt any paperwork is filled out. some here sell at coin shows, no paperwork there either. some here don't sell at all(yet).
as far as anyone on this site not having enough income to file....i have to dissagree....there are several people here that are self sustaining, there are many who are in college, and there are many who are in grade school and high school. sorry if i insulted you by lumping you in with everyone else, again i was using the term in general.

 

[mistergee]

You could always just choose to cash them in at a bank and let the next person to find them take the "tax hit".

we're laughing but if it wasn't for people like that we would be out of business

 

[jim4silver]

Who is "we" Mr. G? I claim any profits when I sell PMs (although I have not sold that much). There is no minimum threshold that must be met before you owe taxes on profits for selling coins/PMs. You have to report ALL net profits, unless for some reason your total yearly income is so low you don't have to file income taxes at all perhaps. I doubt anyone on this site would fit that category.

okay, okay, lets not get into a semantics battle. i used the term in general refering to us silver hunters and used the example in my reply to infer that IF we(CRHers) were doing anything wrong, then not reporting profits was all i could think of. i'm glad your covering your butt by paying taxes on all profits but i doubt everyone is doing it. not all coin is sold to dealers. some here sell to eachother and i doubt any paperwork is filled out. some here sell at coin shows, no paperwork there either. some here don't sell at all(yet).
as far as anyone on this site not having enough income to file....i have to dissagree....there are several people here that are self sustaining, there are many who are in college, and there are many who are in grade school and high school. sorry if i insulted you by lumping you in with everyone else, again i was using the term in general.

Mr. G,

I was not insulted by your statement. Just wanted to explain my position on the whole tax issue. As far as declaring profits goes, anyone who files an income tax return would have to list their profits from PM sales. Maybe when all the numbers get crunched they would not have to pay taxes on them due to other deductions, etc, but they are still supposed to declare them since they might offset other amounts that would entitle the person to a refund.

The minimum income levels that must be met before a return must be filed are so extremely low, I figured most here would meet them. It is something like 9K or so if you are single, and 18K or so if married filing jointly (gross income), and anyone who wants to get a refund must file as well. Self-employed and you make over $400 per year, or married filing seperately the income level is around 3K or so and you must file.

Here is a link on who must file. http://www.hrblock.com/taxes/tax_tips/tax_planning/doyoufile.html

Some here don't know they have to claim such gains and they could get in trouble if they get caught not doing so. I was trying to pass on some knowledge to them.

Jim

 

[mistergee]

Some here don't know they have to claim such gains and they could get in trouble if they get caught not doing so. I was trying to pass on some knowledge to them.

i agree, sometimes what you don't know CAN hurt you. me personally, if and when i decide to sell, it will be a large amount and i would report it then. thanks for the info, i'm sure many did not know this. although i think many will still try to find a way around Uncle Sam.

 

[mistergee]

hey Jim....don't know if you saw this post from Placerman
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,293691.0.html
it seems that there may be some ways around the tax thing. there's some very good info in here. Placerman really did his homework.

 

[jim4silver]

hey Jim....don't know if you saw this post from Placerman
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,293691.0.html
it seems that there may be some ways around the tax thing. there's some very good info in here. Placerman really did his homework.

Mr. G,

I saw that. I don't know how the tax laws work with hobby loss or expenses since I have never attempted to claim them. Definitely talk to a CPA or knowledgeable tax preparer if wanting to go that route though.

Jim

 

[mistergee]

it was news to me....i had no idea there was something for hobbies in the tax law. and i used to help my grandfather(CPA) do paperwork at tax time each year.

 

[golden silver]

For the record my paranoya never came from the fact that they asked me questions or even that they were concerned about how much money I was dealing with. What alarmed me most is the lack of privacy, the fact they entered my home and wanted to see how much silver I had. It was the fact that they went through my garbage, took photos and spent a significant amount of time on me. You can invite the feds all you want but you may not have to is all I am saying. Obviously my homeland Security government website has long been forgotten on this forum. In that thread was a list of people that are being included on terrorist watchlist. On it included NRA members, Ron Paul supporters, People who buy ammunition etc. They are revering to these people and others as Right Wing Extremist. Think and say what you want but I am no longer in the dark for sure.

Golden Silver

 

[mistergee]

Obviously my homeland Security government website has long been forgotten on this forum. In that thread was a list of people that are being included on terrorist watchlist. On it included NRA members, Ron Paul supporters, People who buy ammunition etc. They are revering to these people and others as Right Wing Extremist. Think and say what you want but I am no longer in the dark for sure.

i remember that post GS. if i remember correctly, almost everyone who responded fell into one or more of those categories. i know i fell into several of those categories so i'm pretty sure i'm on that list. perhaps bump that post up to the top to remind people and to let the newbies know. i woulda bumped it for you but couldn't find it. after all "what you don't know can hurt you"

 

[golden silver]

I will have to do that but I got to go right now. Maybe this evening.

Golden Silver