Paleo People

[uniface]

An interesting take on prehistory (one of several on the web page) :

Your anthropology textbooks may claim that no skeletal evidence of these ancient people has yet been found, which is a convenient lie to cover up one interesting fact. Of the dozen or so so-far identified as Palo"Indian skeletal remains dating around 10,000 to 12, 000 years old, each and every one has been identified by physical anthropologists as Caucasian. So much for present Indian claims about being first and their rights to ownership of most of north America. Political correctness is the curse of modern society, and today's anthropology.

Repets itself, but interesting. And great atlatl stuff.

http://www.t-rat.com/Pages/ArchaeologyAz.html

 

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[coteau]

The internet is full of false information. I just finished reading David Meltzer's new book "First Peoples in a New World: Colonizing Ice Age America" He puts in a few comical parts- that the internet is full of white supremacists who believe that anyone but Indians were the first Americans.

I'm not here to argue and everyone is entitled to their own beliefs.... so please don't stone me

 

[Neanderthal]

The internet is full of false information. I just finished reading David Meltzer's new book "First Peoples in a New World: Colonizing Ice Age America" He puts in a few comical parts- that the internet is full of white supremacists who believe that anyone but Indians were the first Americans.

I'm not here to argue and everyone is entitled to their own beliefs.... so please don't stone me

You mean that all of the archeological / anthropological websites online aren't real?! Say it aint so!! Next, you'll be telling me that the Piltdown man, Burrows Cave and Tussinger mounds aren't real either....or that parallel flaked scrapers or those with trimmed bulbs of percussion are paleo. Say it aint true! Bwwhahaha....sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[Road Dog]

Men from Spirit Cave , Wizard Beach and of course Kennewick Man. All have features not resembling Asian. I believe over thousands of years well before 12000 years and after as well there have been multiple migrations from various sources. This is reflected somewhat in assemblages found across the country that do not follow a progression of a technology in evolution. Cultures like Hardaway, Folsom, Cumberland and Clovis.

 

[joshuaream]

Archaeologists and anthropologists don't get nearly as excited as the media about this because it's kind of irrelevant. People can change and adapt significantly over a period of 10,000 years. As an example, the epicanthic fold ("asian eyes") happened with the last 15,000 years in China, Japan and Korea (it might be older in Mongolia.) It has also appeared and disappeared in other areas (bushmen in South Africa still have it.)

Remember, from an anthropological point of view, the word Caucasian is an old, out of date term. It is very broad and isn't limited to European peoples who look like most of us... It actually has nothing to do with skin color, it's more about the shape of the skull. Generally, it includes most people from Europe, central Asia, Iran, Afghanistan, parts of Pakistan and India, some people from Nepal, Bedouins, Armenians, Turks, etc... Some groups from Ethiopia even fit the bill even though their skin is quite dark.

But I completely agree with the concept that modern Native Americans shouldn´t be able to stop research into ancient and unaffiliated remains.

 

[naturegirl]

Thanks for the info on the word caucasian, that's very interesting. Now I see the "asian" part of the word. I have no place in this conversation, because I am a total novice. And it would be nice if politics stayed in it's place, but it never has. I wonder if Native americans feel they are just being pushed around again by the thought that the ancient bones don't all belong to thier ancesters. The NA came from someone right?, It must be the old bones that are dug up. I'm sympathetic to that thought. Racial discrimination is way too much alive. But I'm working my way thru all the articles on the Mike Rugguie(sp) website link provided by uniface, and it's all just so much more complicated than I ever believed. I got all excited thinking America has always been a "melting pot" then decided, the whole world has been a melting pot, then decided that whole concept is wrong and just causes problems. Where I am now in my thinking, is "the tribe of man" We're just all so much the same, these modern quarrels are ridiculous, but have always been part of being human. I'll quit talking now, but I think I want to add a signature line to my profile that says "seek knowledge, embrace wisdom". Right after I find myself an avatar picture of BC comics fat broad!

naturegirl

 

[Tnmountains]

Yep the skull says a lot. I get tired of trying to being politically correct all the time. They are called flat heads around here and not really associated with any known"tribe".

 

[uniface]

Borrowed from another site :

Hi Mike -

About every other week another set of geneticists comes out with another set of observations, which they then over generalize from while ignoring both the archaeological evidence and any other genetic evidence which conflicts with their bold new theory.

My thinking: Y DNA is pretty hopeless for tracking population movements, while mt DNA works much better. C mt DNA starts across Beringia sometime around 45,000 BCE, is ancestral to Iroquoian peoples, and spreads clean to the tip of South America. A mt DNA is ancestral to Siouxian and Algonquin people and crosses sometime after 34,000 BCE, with the Algonquin fishing sea turtle (the Great Turtle) along the coast, and the Siouxian peoples hunting the inland coastal strip.

There are 2 crossings by boat to South America, B and D mt DNA, at times unknown. There is a crossing of an extinct haplogroup from the Sahara River region to South America (Pedra Furada) at 35,000 BCE, and this group spreads north, and is ancestral to what are known as Savanah River People.

X mt DNA haplogroup crosses from Europe ca. 8,350 BCE.

E.P. Grondine
Man and Impact in the Americas

 

[chong2]

wow, i was just thinking if they unearthed any folsom people right before i jumped into the shower, lol i get out and see this post, wierd...................

 

[bravowhiskey]

These folks could be slapped in the face with truth and not admit it. Don't let a few facts stand in the way. Gibberish!

BW

 

[RGINN]

Burrows cave is not real? Aw, man. I don't know what to make of it but I read a lot of Barry Fell's work and find it interesting. I heard a spin put on that line of research saying the white man wants to get the story out that ancient travellers came from Europe to the Americas thousands of years ago because there's no way the indigenous population could have achieved some of the accomplishments they did without European know how and help. I never thought of that before, but apparently that belief has a following out there. Burrows cave...not real. I spent money for that book, too!

 

[Cappy Z.]

My family line has been traced all the way back to albino 'Caucasoid' tree monkeys near a small savanna in Niger.

I am proud of my heritage. And will not tolerate slander, bias, or other truthful statements against me or my people.

Cap Z.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

An interesting take on prehistory (one of several on the web page) :

Your anthropology textbooks may claim that no skeletal evidence of these ancient people has yet been found, which is a convenient lie to cover up one interesting fact. Of the dozen or so so-far identified as Palo"Indian skeletal remains dating around 10,000 to 12, 000 years old, each and every one has been identified by physical anthropologists as Caucasian. So much for present Indian claims about being first and their rights to ownership of most of north America. Political correctness is the curse of modern society, and today's anthropology.

Repets itself, but interesting. And great atlatl stuff.

http://www.t-rat.com/Pages/ArchaeologyAz.html

The American Indian were here when Columbus arrived, and had been for thousands upon thousands of years before we arrived, that is a fairly legitmate claim. We have only been here as colonists since the late 1500's and a country since 1776, only 430 +/- as residents and 233 years as a united country. If another culture lands on our shores and claims this land as theirs would that make our claim to it any less ..........

Since all scientific evidence of first homo sapins so far leads to Africa, what does that say?

 

[Cappy Z.]

Since all scientific evidence of first homo sapins so far leads to Africa, what does that say?
(Treasure Hunter)

That's right! It all leads back to Caucasoid Albinocus Tarzanicus!

My genetic ancestors who for millenia lived at the TOPS of trees! Kings of their Jungle!

 

[uniface]

This will probably get me in trouble, but (IMHO) it needs said.

First off, Orwell was absolutely spot on. Whoever controls the past controls the present, because what people regard as their past determines their self-image : their internal images of who they are, where they came from, what they've been in the past, what their character is, and so on.

And whoever controls the present controls the future, because people base their decisions and actions on these images of "themselves" -- on the basis of who (and what) they think they "are."

The self images of people tend to be self-fulfilling prophecies.

No one has to look any further for evidence of this than the "image" of who (and what) Black people are that the entertainment media have trumpeted for the last 20 years, and the effect this has had on making police forces and prison work a growing employment field even in a recessions. You simply cannot reason a young black "gangsta" into regarding a steady job and staying out of trouble as anything but insufferably lame after he's been somebody out in the street, packing a glock and living large. I know that for a fact. I spent six and a half years of my life trying. His self image simply rules out anything but the high-voltage excitement (and personal importance) of being a "playa." What the world that's locked him up regards as responsibility/maturity comes across, given who he thinks he is, as utterly alien. Even in school, when he was younger, he had to turn his back on what was being offered him, because connecting with it would have been "acting white."

People being the way they are, peer pressure insures that self images are collective as well as individual.

Once you're aware of this as a manipulative technique, it starts to be more and more apparent going back in time. Elementary school books in England, for an example, once portrayed Britons as the proud heirs of their own legendary history and high culture up until around the early 1800s. Then came the switch, and they were presented as having been half-naked, tattooed savages until the civilizing influences from Rome turned them into passable imitations of human beings. Along with this, medievalist sentimentalism presented the Feudal era as a kind of romantic golden age when, in fact, it had been an abject slavery that they had revolted against at every opportunity and finally -- for a time -- overthrew.

This was the replacement of one body of history/mythology with a different one. Specifically, with an alien one that served an essentially alien agenda. In warfare, psychological "softening up" of the target population always precedes the actual attack. Argue the factual justification of Trojan colonists vs. woad-smeared cannibals as you will, but one fact looms large : a change in mythology entails a corresponding change in self image. The two are, ultimately, reflections of each other.

At this point, I would like to pause, leaving one idea behind : The reason (as I see it on this end) this topic is engendering such emotionally charged responses is because the above has yet to be worked-through. The issue involved isn't whether your ancestry is Native American or Caucasian. Facts are facts. And so long as they remain facts, without triggering implanted suggestions in response, we're all on the same page here. And the implanted suggestions are numerous.

The crux of the issue is our actual history, on both sides : where our respective people came from, and when, and how. Dealing with that (without the attempt being derailed by automatic sniping) is, IMHO, both the problem and the opportunity. I think we can do that. If we can, there may well be some genuine surprises.

We're all pretty much in this together. We've all got some history we regard as shameful. Grudges get us nowhere. But they DO keep us divided. And, at this point, this does not serve OUR interests.

Fresh air and sunlight are the best disinfectants.

Then again. I've been wrong before

(?)

 

[crow12c]

Mans greatest knowledge is dust under the Creators feet. you can claim to be from a bug or a monkey or fish... and belive it in your heart. it only proves the above statement is true...

 

[RGINN]

Well Uniface, I understand that post. Some folks won't. I got white folks, Indian folks, black folks, and now hispanic folks in my family. I don't really know anyone from Caucasia, but by golly if they want to come over and sit down and drink a beer and talk it over they are sure welcome. We're all probably from the same place, but as time passes, we tend to become elitist, and classify ourselves above what our roots are. You think?

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

I personally have no problem fitting my Religion and Evolution together.

 

[Tnmountains]

There is nothing wrong with good solid sound knowledge. Its how we apply and convey the knowledge that counts. Its hard sometimes when you have a round hole and receive a square peg. But thats how we all learn. Right?

 

[naturegirl]

uniface! well said