Pa Confusion

[mikhen]

There is an area near my house that is owned be the Pa Dept of Conservation and Natural Resources. The laws are different from Pa State Parks and Game lands. In fact, the forest I want to search in isn't even listed as 1 of their forests, but it is posted as owned by them in the parking area. It's only 33 acres.
I wrote a letter to the local office about metal detection there with my daughter. Just got a reply stating that no body in the local office knows the answer to that question, so my letter has been forwarded to the head office in Harrisburg, and I should receive a reply by the end of next week. I hope they don't waste any tax payer money taking a vote on this. And here I thought it was a simple yes (hopefully) or no question.

 

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[jeff of pa]

Please Advise what they Say.

If you read state Forest Rules it Lists a Ton
of Recreation Possabilties,
Including Fossil Hunting, Spelunking, Gold Panning ETC.

& Says there are Endless other Recreation Uses.

However Their Signs are Gameland Signs
& say Nothing can be removed
Just like Game Lands

So My guess we are the Only recreation not allowed
on State Forrest property.

Of course Most state parks are OK with Permit

 

[mikhen]

I will definitely heed what they say, that's why I asked before hand.
You stated that state parks can be hunted with a permit. Do you anything about Locust lake State Park? We may be camping there this year.

 

[jeff of pa]

Was up about 3 Years Ago.
The day we went up, they were draining the Lake.

They told us NO Because of this.

We didn't complain just Left Disappointed.

A Friend Called and Complained
because it's in the rules that it's open.

He was told OK

But added "anything that you find, including money, must be turned in to the office to be put into the lost and found. I'm sure you already know this. If it is not claimed in 30 days, you may claim it.
"
I guess to get even.

By now things Should be Normal again
Just advise them you plan on detecting

 

[FooserPaul]

Please Advise what they Say.

If you read state Forest Rules it Lists a Ton
of Recreation Possabilties,
Including Fossil Hunting, Spelunking, Gold Panning ETC.

& Says there are Endless other Recreation Uses.

However Their Signs are Gameland Signs
& say Nothing can be removed
Just like Game Lands

So My guess we are the Only recreation not allowed
on State Forrest property.

Of course Most state parks are OK with Permit

How can you Fossil hunt and NOT remove anything ?

 

[jeff of pa]

Either I Misread before or fossil hunting was Removed.
Most Likley Removed as the words "Endless Recreational Activities"
don't seem to be here anymore Either.

Miscellaneous Recreational Activities
Guidelines

Many miscellaneous activities occur on state forest land. These include astronomy, dog sledding, geocaching, gold panning, jogging, hang gliding, ice-skating, orienteering, photography, rock climbing, rappelling, sleigh riding, sledding, snowboarding, snowshoeing, spelunking, swimming, snorkeling and tubing. All of these activities are permitted unless they are in conflict with State Forest Rules and Regulations (17. Pa. Code, Chapter 21).

Others are regulated directly. Motorcycle riding is detailed in subsection 21.23 Trail bikes and other off-road vehicles and subsection 21.24 Spark Arrestors. Gold panning is regulated by a 1996 policy administered by the Minerals Section. Hang gliding sites are developed by district standards in cooperation with gliding clubs and they are restricted to use by fully trained pilots. Geocaching is another new activity and the Bureau of Forestry, Recreation Section maintains a policy dealing primarily on the placement and maintenance of caches.



§ 21.31. Prohibitions.
The following activities are prohibited:

(1) Cutting, picking, digging, damaging or removing, in whole or in part, a living or dead plant, vine, shrub, tree or flower on State Forest land without written authorization of the District Forester or a designee, except that edible wild plants or plant parts may be gathered without authorization if they are gathered for one’s own personal or family consumption. Dead and down wood for small campfires may be gathered without prior authorization.

(2) Removing rocks, shale, sand, clay, soil or other mineral products from State Forest land without written authorization of the District Forester or a designee.

(3) Removing peat, sawdust, bark, mulch or other products from State Forest land without written authorization of the District Forester or a designee.

(4) Removing or disturbing historical or archeological resources from State Forest land without written authorization of the District Forester or a designee.

(5) Planting a tree, shrub or plant of any kind without the written authorization of the District Forester or a designee.



Source

The provisions of this § 21.31 amended December 4, 1998, effective December 5, 1998, 28 Pa.B. 6039. Immediately preceding text appears at serial page (217091).


http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/forestry/sfrmp/recreation.htm#misc

 

[mikhen]

You can pan for gold but can't remove minerals.

So how hard is it to get a permit, anyway?

 

[jeff of pa]

You can pan for gold but can't remove minerals.

So how hard is it to get a permit, anyway?

Possably the same as State parks.
Just show up at the Office & Hope they can find them.

 

[bodkin55]

I asked the DCNR for permission to hunt an old ghost town located on state forest land. The Chief Ranger stated that the current policy for metal detecting on state forest land does not permit detecting in historical areas without the authorization of the Historical and Museum Commission. My letter was forwarded to the Commission. They replied that the only time they authorize metal detecting in historical areas is when a project is setup with a college or archeological group to look for artifacts to be donated to the Commission for display at the state museum in Harrisburg. I don't know if this would apply to your situation but thought I would share my experience with you. Here is a copy of the Bureau policy on metal detecting on State Forest Land given to me with the reply from the Chief Ranger.



"The use of a metal detector on State Forest land does not currently require a permit. The digging for metal objects is restricted to shallow surface disturbance using a hand trowel or other similar narrow probing device such as a screw driver. Be sure to fill in any spots where you create a small hole or divot with your digging tool.

The use of a metal detector and the related digging is not permitted within the boundaries of designated Natural and Wild Areas. Also, probing is not permitted under the surface of the water in a pond, lake or stream on state forest land. Any Archeological salvage project sites are off limits to probing for any reason.

Persons seeking to find historical artifacts on public land must obtain permission to do so from the Pennsylvania Historical and Museum Commission. Anyone who finds a "Archealogical Specimen" on state forest land is required to surrender the item at the local district office. Such items remain the exclusive property of the Commonwealth under the authority of the Historic Preservation Act."

 

[doverturtle]

My take on it is this: If the state is going to allow unfettered access to state forests by oil and gas companies, then there should be no issue whatsoever allowing people to use metal detectors in the same forests.

 

[mikhen]

Got my reply, still confused.

Excerpt from the reply:

The use of a metal detector and the related digging is not permitted within the boundaries of designated Natural and Wild Areas. Also, probing is not permitted under the surface of the water in a pond, lake or stream on state forest lands. Any archaeological salvage project sites are off limits to probing for any reason.

However, the general use of a metal detector on
State
Forest lands that are not designated as a Natural or Wild Area is permissible and does not currently require a permit. The digging for metal objects is restricted to shallow surface disturbance using a hand trowel or other similar narrow probing device such as a screwdriver. Be sure to fill in any spots where you create a small hole or divot with your digging tool.


Persons seeking to find historical artifacts on public land must obtain permission to do so from the Pennsylvania Historical and Museum Commission. Anyone who finds an “Archaeological Specimen” on state forest land is required to surrender the item at the local district office. Such items remain the exclusive property of the Commonwealth under the authority of the Historic Preservation Act.

So, that would mean that a normal state forest is open for metal detecting without a permit. But, is it considered public land? Because if it is, I would need permission and have to surrender all finds.

 

[jeff of pa]

Got my reply, still confused.

Excerpt from the reply:

The use of a metal detector and the related digging is not permitted within the boundaries of designated Natural and Wild Areas. Also, probing is not permitted under the surface of the water in a pond, lake or stream on state forest lands. Any archaeological salvage project sites are off limits to probing for any reason.

However, the general use of a metal detector on
State
Forest lands that are not designated as a Natural or Wild Area is permissible and does not currently require a permit. The digging for metal objects is restricted to shallow surface disturbance using a hand trowel or other similar narrow probing device such as a screwdriver. Be sure to fill in any spots where you create a small hole or divot with your digging tool.


Persons seeking to find historical artifacts on public land must obtain permission to do so from the Pennsylvania Historical and Museum Commission. Anyone who finds an “Archaeological Specimen” on state forest land is required to surrender the item at the local district office. Such items remain the exclusive property of the Commonwealth under the authority of the Historic Preservation Act.

So, that would mean that a normal state forest is open for metal detecting without a permit. But, is it considered public land? Because if it is, I would need permission and have to surrender all finds.

The use of a metal detector and the related digging is not permitted within the boundaries of designated Natural and Wild Areas. Also, probing is not permitted under the surface of the water in a pond, lake or stream on state forest lands. Any archaeological salvage project sites are off limits to probing for any reason.

However, the general use of a metal detector on
State
Forest lands that are not designated as a Natural or Wild Area is permissible and does not currently require a permit. The digging for metal objects is restricted to shallow surface disturbance using a hand trowel or other similar narrow probing device such as a screwdriver. Be sure to fill in any spots where you create a small hole or divot with your digging tool.


Persons seeking to find historical artifacts on public land must obtain permission to do so from the Pennsylvania Historical and Museum Commission. Anyone who finds an “Archaeological Specimen” on state forest land is required to surrender the item at the local district office. Such items remain the exclusive property of the Commonwealth under the authority of the Historic Preservation Act

Make sure the area you wish to hunt is not a

designated Natural and Wild Areas.or under the surface of the water in a pond

Detect areas that are

not designated as a Natural or Wild Area

Parking & Camp Areas along the Forest Roads,
Forest Roads, Clear Cut Areas, paths, Etc ?

use a

hand trowel or other similar narrow probing device such as a screwdriver.

Don't seek

historical artifacts

Don't find “

Archaeological Specimen

”

Just "Cool old Finds" !
Then you can take 'em Home

 

[lumbercamp]

I'm late on this, but go to your nearest DCNR office. They will have maps of the state forest locations in your area. These maps show the natural and wild areas where you are not permitted to dig. I have hiked in these areas and come across places I would have liked to dig, but won't. There are enough other areas open to dig on.

 

[CoilFisher]

I have been to alot of coin and stamp shows over the years.
I dont recall anyone referring to a coin or stamp as a "historical artifact".

Food for thought.

 

[big mike]

Maybe I missed it but since is gold panning allowed in a stream in a state forest can you keep it if you find any? My take is no as you have to "probe" the bottom to get material to pan.

 

[Nitelord]

Well, they certainly don't make it easy to figure out. You can do this but not here and only if you don't do that over where.

Guess I'll still to private property for now... HH

 

[ivan salis]

the easy answer


#1 - in areas they they call * natural and wild areas -metal detecting is simply not allowed -- probing / looking under water is not allowed on any state forest land *--and any "offical" archaeological salvage sites are of course off limits as well

#2 - anything that you might find that you call a "fossil" on state controlled forest land or other state land --they will call a "archaeological speciman" and they say you are to turn it in as it "belongs" to the commonwealth (state*)

#3 you can metal detect at state owned places that ARE NOT natural or wild areas.-- shallow digging with hand tools only and be sure to cover your holes . -- if you find anything thats a "cool - historical type artifact " your suppossed to turn it in -for them to keep *--(uh exactly what a "historical artifact" I don't know -its not spelled out clearly--so using the 50 year old general rule archies often like to use - a 1961 beaver tail type pull tab is a 'historical artifact" right?)

#4 some places have a "turn in all your finds" to the park rangers "office" clause - if it goes unclaimed after 30 days its yours * however you can bet that the 3 carat diamond ring you found -- will be claimed by the park rangers girl freind / wife / cousin / freind *--if you find it and turn it in "get a reciept" for it and let them know ahead of time you WILL BE BACK FOR IT.

 

[big mike]

I guess a person will find out if they get caught and "someone" will find a law that was broken or make one up and then they're toast. Love it.

 

[FinderKeeper]

You got it right Big Mike, I been dealing with DCNR each week for 7 years and still I am not sure of the rules. What they put on paper is writen to be twisted to fit there needs when the time arrives. What they tell you off the record you can't believe, because to save their job they will say they never said it. I have been through it all and I been doing it the way DCNR wants is done but some days I wonder if I should be doing it my way. Things would get done faster but it would be up to the courts to decide the rest. If you plan to work with DCNR , be aware they take and do not give . They may appear to be your friend then turn you in when they need to . They let you think they are willing to help you when all they want is info on everything you plan to do . If you locate something do not give them the location until you have something in writing but they won't talk to you unless you give them the location first. So I gave them a location and we talked but it was just a location and not the treasure site. For 7 years I've been a pain in there ass and they tried methods that some would question to remove me. Its there job but some over do it Its just a game so play it well