Overseas gemstone purchases by our returning servicemen and women

[Rasputin]

I would like to make some comments and observations and open a spirited discussion about overseas purchases of gemstones not only by our service persons but by anyone travelling who finds themselves in a gemstone producing region. I selected talking about our returning servicemen and women not to single them out (as I have the utmost respect for the awesome job they have done for us) but because I have heard this story ad nauseum and I have first-hand knowledge of many of these stories. I will relate one of these to you. My wife is an I.T. Director at her company and does much work outside of her job for a large list of clients, both businesses and individuals. One Saturday I was bored so I tagged along with her to a client's house. My wife was busy talking to the guy's wife about their 'puter problems so I struck up a conversation with the husband. Seems both his sons where coming home soon from duty in Afghanistan and had purchased a large number of diamonds and other gemstones while overseas. Well, since I have collected gemstones since I was eleven, you can imagine that he now had my full attention. Knowing my interest and wanting my opinion on their purchases he proceeded to pull out eight gem trays full of gemstones. There were 300+ diamonds ranging in size from .003 to .25 carats each; many tourmalines and some kunzite and about 15 emeralds for a total of about 360 stones. His excitement grew as I looked them over and he wanted to know what he should sell them for and the best way of disposing of them. He rambled on about how much money they were going to make, how rich they would be...etc. etc. Well let me just say that I am not a Graduate Gemologist but I have read about and studied minerals and gemstones for years and was a geology major in college ( although I never finished my degree). As I studied the stones with the loupe he had handed me I got that twisted knotted feeling in the pit of my stomach as I realized all the stones were of inferior quality and I was now tasked with "raining on his parade." I asked him gently what he had paid for the stones and he enthusiastically replied only $6000.00 for the diamonds! (He didn't tell me what he paid for the other stones.) I now felt physically sick to my stomach as I tried to verbally extricate myself from having to render a verdict on his means of retirement. I stammered and stuttered and ended up wimping out in the end by telling him that he should have a professional jeweler appraise them as I wasn't qualified but "they looked good, especially the emeralds." As we left the house, knowing me as well as she does, my wife commented that the stones must have been poor quality as she could tell my disappointment. I replied that she was right, the diamonds were very visibly brown in color, and most of them were melee in size. The whole bunch probably were not worth $600.00, never mind the $6000.00 that he paid. The kunzite was commercial grade and very, very pale pink in color, almost colorless. The tourmalines were small, 1/2 to 1 carat in size, very pale in color, and moderately included. I would say not even of commercial quality. Now we come to the emeralds. Beautiful color and flawless clarity, which is a big red flag. Folks, even if you could find flawless emeralds of this color they would be thousands and thousands of dollars a carat. The emeralds, to me, looked exactly like the Russian synthetic emeralds that are on the market. Now I know what you are thinking, but he bought them at the source! They couldn't be fake! People in Columbia, Brazil, Afghanistan, and other gemstone-producing regions of the world may be unsophisticated but they are not stupid. They know full well the value of their goods and they are not going to sell them for pennies on the dollar. There are many gemstone scams and all you have to do to find them is to go on E-Bay. It is naive to think that someone who knows nothing about gemstones is going to go to that region to buy stones and not be ripped off. This brings me to my next topic--fair business practices. The sense of fair play in business that we enjoy as Americans is virtually non-existent in the third world. A good business transaction in those countries is one in which they have put the screws to the other person and made a fortune. In their eyes, this "proves" their business acumen. I am sorry this may have sounded negative but I felt the need to share this with everyone and I welcome your comments and I hope this post initiates some lively dialogue. Thanks for reading.

 

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[Cappy Z.]

Thank you for posting an excellent message. The amount of fraud is massive. The rooskies in particular somehow have become major players as suppliers of questionable gemstones. No one wants to buy a brilliant flawless emerald for a chunk of change then find out later it is actually made in Stalingraad in a sweat shop.

However, it is said that only about 5% of all stones are 'gem' quality. I would suggest that what is one mans junk is an others treasure. I myself buy lesser grade stones because as judging each stone individually I find them beautiful in their own way. Yes, one is not going to buy a handful of diamonds for chump change then get rich. But one can buy a large imperfect stone that dazzles and has color and he quite happy with it. Just like buying cars one does not need a Rolls Royce..many are happy with Toyota's and even Chevy's.

Be informed, educated, and ask yourself why and for what reason you want a specific stone for a specific price. I personally would not recommend 'investing' in gems.

HH

 

[Cappy Z.]

How to spot a counterfeit gem
There are more counterfeit gems in the jewelry market today than ever due to more ways of making them appear real. Learn how to spot them.



There are more counterfeit gems in the jewelry market today than ever due to more ways of making them appear "real". Knowing what different deceptive means dealers use to pass off fake gems as real ones can help you avoid getting swindled.


There is a difference in value between gems which are natural or made by nature and those that are synthetic or made by man. There is also imitation gems which are different than both natural and synthetic. There is a big difference in value and price between these three types of gems sold to consumers.



Synthetic is the name given to man made gems which are just as beautiful as a natural gem, sometimes more beautiful. Man made gemstones are identical to their natural counter parts except for the fact that they are made in the laboratory instead of by mother nature in the earth. They possess the identical chemical composition, crystal structure and appearance as their natural counter parts. They are also identical in hardness, luster, and refractive qualities. Because they are made in the lab they are perfect. The cost of a perfect natural gem can be astronomical; the cost of a perfect man

made gem is affordable, because they can be made in mass quantities.


Imitation gems are not the same chemically as gems that are synthetic or natural. Imitation gems are usually made of glass. Red glass can be made into an imitation ruby. Green glass can pass as an emerald. Cubic zirconia is a lab grown gem but it is not the same chemically as it’s natural counterpart. Cubic zirconia can be made into a green gem that looks extremely close to an emerald. Cubic zirconia is much cheaper than a natural gem or a gems synthetic counterpart.


There is nothing wrong with making synthetic gems and there is nothing illegal about it. But selling or passing off a synthetic gem as a natural gem is illegal and fraudulent. Retailers feel that the term “imitation” when used next to the gem doesn’t sound good. Most customers wouldn’t want to buy an imitation gem. So, they insert the word synthetic for an imitation stone. Synthetic stones are not the same as imitation stones in the jewelry world. So when you are buying a piece of jewelry make sure you ask if the gem is natural, synthetic or imitation.


Another deceptive practice that sellers play on buyers of gems is coating them with a colored substance. A pale gem can be coated with a darker colored plastic to make it appear more valuable. A rock crystal can be coated with a red plastic to imitate a ruby. To make a gem sparkle a dealer may coat a dull gem with lacquer or shellac.


Dealers can also put a dab of paint on the bottom point of a dull gem to refract up through it intensifying the color. The light will go down through the gem and reflect off of the darker paint, the gem will appear a darker more valuable hue. A diamond that is too yellow can be painted on the bottom with a purple color thus counteracting the yellow and making the diamond appear clear. A crystal clear colorless diamond is worth more than a yellow one. The paint on the bottom of the gem will be hidden by the gold setting. Always make sure you can inspect the bottom of a gem in the ring’s setting. Do not buy an expensive ring with a closed back setting, the bottom of the gem may be painted.


A dealer can put a foil backing on an imitation glass stone to make the gem appear brilliant. Foil backing has been applied to gems for thousands of years; mostly before modern cutting techniques to add brilliant facets was invented. It is not a common practice today, but some antique stones can be found that have foil backings. The value of an antique stone with a foil backing will be valuable because it is an antique.


Sometimes gem manufacturers will glue together two stones to make a doublet, or three stones to make a triplet. These are called composite or assembled stones. When a seller discloses a doublet or a triplet this is not considered deceptive. But, sometimes the types of stones that are glued together are not equal in value. It is not uncommon for a synthetic stone to be glued to a natural or an imitation stone. When the buyer is not told it is considered a fraudulent practice.


Another misleading practice used by jewelers is re-naming gems to make buyers think they are getting a rarer more valuable one. A garnet could be called an American Ruby when all it is a garnet. Some other misnomers are: an oriental amethyst which is really a purple sapphire, a Brazilian diamond which is really a colorless topaz, an Indian emerald which is really a dyed crackled quartz, a Brazilian emerald which is really a green tourmaline, a Spanish emerald which is really green glass, a Ceylon opal which is really a moonstone, a water sapphire which is really iolite. This is just a few of them,

there are many more “manufactured” names dealers will give gems to make you believe you are getting more than you are. If a jeweler calls a gem by a double “special” name, ask them what it really means.


The above practices, when done with the intent to deceive, are fraud. If a jeweler or dealer is honest and discloses the information to the buyer then it is legitimate. As long as the buyer is aware of what they are purchasing then the sale is legitimate.

 

[Rasputin]

Thanks for responding to my post BillyBu--whoops, I mean Cappy Z. I personally buy the largest, finest quality stone I can find at the time which isn't really as impressive as it sounds because I don't ever have much left over after the bills are paid and anyway we are not talking emeralds and rubies and Tanzanite here, I collect the lesser known collector stones: Danburite, Sinhalite, Diaspore, Titanite, Chrome Diopside, Andalusite, Etc. More to your point, I buy what I like to please myself and not anyone else. I show a chrome diopside to someone and they don't know what the h*&ll it is anyway. I buy what I like and enjoy. I venture that almost everyone who collects gemstones has been defrauded at one time or another. That is just part of the learning curve and the price of an education. The only defense against this is to read and reread all the material you can get your hands on. Uh-oh, I ended that last sentence with a preposition; My high school english teacher told us to never end a sentence with a preposition.

 

[Skywola]

"A good business transaction in those countries is one in which they have put the screws to the other person and made a fortune. In their eyes, this "proves" their business acumen. "

Here, if you are in a business and half way know what your are doing you may survive. There, you better know your business, or you won't. I guess that kind of weeds out the mediocre who don't take the time to learn. If someone is foolish enough to part with that much money without knowing what they are getting, they evidently had a little surplus that they did not really need . . .

Spartan children, during their training process were given very little food, but were encouraged to steal food. If caught, they were beaten. To avoid severe pain, children learned to be cunning, to lie, to cheat, to steal, and how to get away with it . . . it was necessary for their survival.

When you read about the old west and some of the daring robberies that occurred, it seems that we may not have been much different 100 or so years ago.

Interesting how we may sometimes scoff at other ideologies, without understanding their origins. Many Americans live a very sheltered life, and just can't comprehend the idea of struggling just for existence. When the chips are down, the rules change rapidly. I'd say a little overseas education is good, might cost a little, but it is a lesson rarely forgotten.

 

[Cappy Z.]

Rasputin

It is truly a pleasure to have met you here at TN. I must say I absolutely enjoy your dialogue.

Apparently we both enjoy the innate beauty of earth's creations.

I hope to see more of your posts.

Godspeed,

Cappy Z.

 

[Rasputin]

Thank you Cappy. Only someone who shares your passion can understand. Uh-oh, I'm not sure that came out right...

 

[Cappy Z.]

I think gemstones are in the same market as cars. People buy anything. With the world wide economy and the access of small companies being able to sell overseas...the market truly has dropped. However the in is in for crime. people will always turn to mischief to make a dime. Even our early currency during the civil war was plagued with funny money. And now with the advent of applied science we can have perfect fake gems made to order. Only a gemologist with the right equipment can actually diagnose? the man made. I did post here a long note about the differences between synthetic and man made. i hope people do their own research and realize that just like studying a foreign language learning the ins and outs of buying gems is tricky. I again NEVER recommend folks buying gems fr an investment. Do it for the satisfaction and joy they give you or the ones you love.

CZ

 

[Shortstack]

There is a gemstone found only in Saudi Arabia called a Sand Diamond. Where volcanic diamonds are 10.0 on the hardness scale, sand diamonds are 9.5 or greater on the scale. They can easily fool a gemologist or jeweler if that person is not very careful. I found out about these stones back in the early 1980s when I was making deployments to Saudi Arabia in support of ELF-1. The stones sold for $10 per carat, cut and polished in most of the favorite styles; round, emerald, and oval cuts. The main thing that confused the jewelers in OKC was not only the hardness of these stones were the facts that they were so clear and flawless. The quality is actually better than the volcanic stones except for that .5 or .05 difference in hardness.
We were told that sand diamonds were found no where else in the world.

Those stones are a real enigma because the sand in Saudi Arabia is so fine, that it is unusable for construction purposes---it is no good for concrete or glass making or......But they hide these fantastic gemstones.

As a last note: If you can develop a viable commercial use for the sand in Saudi, you can become fabulously wealthy. They have to import sand for making concrete. How embarrassing is THAT?

 

[allen_idaho]

I have always been hesitant to buy gemstones overseas when they are offered. Usually it's one or two shady looking guys who show you a bag of shiny rocks and try to explain how extremely valuable they are (not). I would usually take a look at a few of the stones, see all the impurities, give them back, and be on my way. Of course they will try to stop you and desperately explain how I am passing up such a great opportunity. Then get upset when I still say no. It always plays out the same in Iraq, the Philippines, Singapore, (insert country here) etc.

However, I did find a great deal in Thailand. At a jewelry store. I ended up paying around $300 for a gold necklace with one diamond and four rubies in it and giving it to my mother. Turns out it's actually worth a little over $2500. Now she never takes it off.

Along the same lines as the Saudi Arabian Sand Diamonds, in Egypt, you can find these amazing examples of Meteoritic Glass. Very large pieces in fact. You will even find them on King Tut's Sarcophagus. Turns out that a meteorite exploded over the desert centuries ago and cooked the sand into glass in places.

 

[Cappy Z.]

Nice post, Allen Idaho.

 

[Shortstack]

allen idaho wrote: Turns out that a meteorite exploded over the desert centuries ago and cooked the sand into glass in places.

That may have happened, but it doesn't explain the sand diamonds. As I stated in my post above, the sand diamonds have a hardness factor within a half point of a volcanic diamond. No sand melted by a meteor exploding in the atmosphere would form a stone of such hardness. Also, a meteor doesn't become a meteorite until it hits the ground, therefore, what exploded in the atmosphere was a meteor; not a meteorite.

 

[allen_idaho]

Meteor or Meteorite, it doesn't really matter. I was just explaining that meteoritic glass, just like sand diamonds, are another oddity from the middle east. I have no idea about sand diamonds. This is the first time I've ever heard of them.

 

[Shortstack]

OK, I misread your post. I read it as the exploding meteor formed the sand diamonds in Saudi as well.
I had never heard of Sand Diamonds either until I deployed to Saudi in the early to mid- 1980s. I talked of other aircrew members who had bought some mounted in 24ct gold findings and had them appraised by jewelers in OKC for insurance purposes and the jewelers were really puzzled. They thought the stones were NOT diamonds, but they didn't know WHY. The clarity is what they didn't believe. And the hardness was good enough to BE real. The jewelers were pretty stumped until the folks told them what the stones were and where they came from.
Since Saudi Arabia does not issue tourists visas, sightseers would not be able to bring them out. Just military people and contract workers. For some reason, they just never got the publicity.
As for Thailand, during the Vietnam war Bangkok was an R & R location and you could buy what was known as $5 and $10 bags of cut and polished cabracons from street vendors. The stones would be star sapphires, tiger eyes, fire opal, etc. One guy I knew bought a bag that had a large black star sapphire in it that he took to a jeweler in the states to mount into a pendant for his wife. The jeweler broke the stone and it took him over 6 months to find a stone as large and as good in quality as the one that was broken. The value he set was over a thousand dollars for just that stone. So that was one person who made out like a bandit on a $5 investment. We could buy pretty large slabs of rough gem material on the base where I was. Another friend bought a slab of Australian fire opal for a couple of dollars then cut and polished the material himself in the base hobby shop. Those stones were BEAUTIFUL; full of "fire" in a pure white matrix. A pendant, broach, and ring he made were appraised for over $1600. His wife loved that set---especially because he made them for her.

 

[airborne1092]

Wow - good to know. I was considering buying stones while abroad but now will rethink my strategy. Also, thank you Cappy Z. for all that info! You sound like an educated stone-man!

 

[Cappy Z.]

Wow - good to know. I was considering buying stones while abroad but now will rethink my strategy. Also, thank you Cappy Z. for all that info! You sound like an educated stone-man!

... thank you Cappy Z. for all that info! You sound like an educated stone-man!(airborne1092)

More like a stoned educated man......