Oval Copper Token with Portrait

[strycker]

I found this today in the same area I found my 1800 US Large Cent. Have found a 1700's farthing nearby as well previously. I can't find anything on this anywhere. I thought it might be one of those coins used to press wax seals on letters, but it has a reverse side as well. It appears to be copper. Thicker than a penny but roughly the same size and oval. Portrait on front and what looks like a Phoenix on the back? Could this be a family crest or something? What do you think / know it is? BTW, the images you see are depressions and not raised. Photo makes it look raised on the surface.

 

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[CRUSADER]

Yeap looks like a double sided seal, pretty rare, you can see where it swivelled at each end. Do some impressions to get the letters.

 

[vpnavy]

The strange thing about it is the hole on the bottom yet it appears to have (or had) a ring on the top.

 

[CRUSADER]

The strange thing about it is the hole on the bottom yet it appears to have (or had) a ring on the top.

If it does, these things get adapted when broken (made into pendants)

 

[deepsecrets]

Depending upon where you found this, it could be a very significant piece of history - the eagle looks to be the Pierre Charles L’Enfant design for the George Washington Society - Eleanore "Nellie" Custis Lewis of Audley Farm (Clarke County VA) was the adopted daughter of George Washington.

The Badge of the Cincinnati | andrewcusack.com

I would think this seal belonged to someone of prominence - definitely worth taking to an expert to identify. - Super find!!

 

[strycker]

If it does, these things get adapted when broken (made into pendants)

Well. Where do I begin? The farm is located north of Clarke County , VA. Not by very far either. Yes, the bottom has a tiny hole where a swivel point could have been placed. The to has a rough edge where it could have been a loop to create a pendent. That is what I originally thought it was. Some type of jewelry, but then when I saw how detailed it was, I figured it had to be more. The back could be an eagle. I just got chills because check it against a 50 cent piece and its almost identical. If stamped, the eagle would face the same direction as the Kennedy half does.

So now what do you think. Any resources that are known that I could refer to to research? I'm excited now to find out more!

 

[bigfoot1]

its clear to me that you have found something very cool.probably a bit more than you(or I) can do.Maybe time to look into local(or not)experts in the areas mentioned.Perhaps time to start shooting some email pics to them and go from there.If you need help with that area of research..I for one will help research as long as you are doing same.

cool find and just maybe important....dont clean it say I.

pat

 

[strycker]

I rinsed it. Only way I could figure out what it was. Gave it the olive oil coin treatment. Hope that doesn't hurt it much. Otherwise it looked like dented metal.

 

[bigfoot1]

letterseals.com maybe start there

 

[fireford10]

Have you tried to press it into wax like it would have been used if it was a seal stamp?? I think it would be cool to see what it actually looks like as a seal. Then you migh get more results by taking pics of the impressions, the way it would look if used.

 

[deepsecrets]

I would start with Clarke County Historical Association and then the archives at the library in Winchester - they should have some examples of wax seals on documents from the late 1700's to early 1800s on land deeds etc. Audley Farm was very large and several farms in the area may have also had cooperative agreements with Audley back during that time. Of course, you can also contact the Smithsonian, they can direct you to the right experts. Best of luck and keep us updated!

 

[bigfoot1]

I would start with Clarke County Historical Association and then the archives at the library in Winchester - they should have some examples of wax seals on documents from the late 1700's to early 1800s on land deeds etc. Audley Farm was very large and several farms in the area may have also had cooperative agreements with Audley back during that time. Of course, you can also contact the Smithsonian, they can direct you to the right experts. Best of luck and keep us updated!

I wasnt ready to mention the,"s"word(smithsonian)...but heck yes...and awsome advice on research avenues...

 

[surf]

Hello strycker,

Welcome to the TNet, sir, and thanks for showing us your find. I'd really like to see more photos and measurements, please.

It's very well modeled. The young lady's cap / hairstyle looks circa 1800, but could just as easily be a Rennaisance style, you know how these things come into, and out of fashion.

"Above - Caps and turbans from 1800, 1801,1806 and 1807." 1800 Accesories - Regency Fashion History

More Medieval Women​

 

[strycker]

Hello strycker,

Welcome to the TNet, sir, and thanks for showing us your find. I'd really like to see more photos and measurements, please.

It's very well modeled. The young lady's cap / hairstyle looks circa 1800, but could just as easily be a Rennaisance style, you know how these things come into, and out of fashion.

Well as for dimensions, it measures 9/16" across by 11/16" tall. Thickness approx. 5/32" I would say. Slightly thicker than a Kennedy half. I can try for better pictures tomorrow. What would you like to see. I may try to scan it and see if it comes out. But will try tomorrow.

As for the wax pressing, I don't feel comfortable doing it with something like this. Neve done it before an don't wan this to be the test subject.

Thanks all!

 

[fireford10]

I can understand your concern for pressing into wax, i just figured it would melt out if any dried in the stamp. What about playdough i know that sounds weird, but its not hot, and would easily pull back out of the indentions by blotting it with more playdough. Just a thought, i guess its easier for me to be so curious since its not something i found, LOL! Im just really thinking that it will bring out more detial that maybe we cant see just by looking at the stamp itself. By the way, honestly ,i have no clue what family its from, where its from, who used it, when it was made, or basically ANYTHING about it. Just thinkn somebody else might be able to help you better. Good luck! And its an awesome find whatever it turns out to be!!!!

 

[yaxthri]

Very nice find.
I think I see a hole going through the whole artifact, might have been mounted in some kind of frame so one could rotete it alternating the two different seal patterns.
I thought of a seal ring but the axis looks wrong for a ring...

 

[strycker]

Front Detail

Back Detail

Kennedy Half Comparison


Attempting to get better shots for you all. The half is for comparison of the back of the 'stamp'.

As for the 'hole' in the bottom of the artifact, it is just a dimpled area, not a hole through the middle.

Another interesting find is this: Very similar in appearance.
National Parks Service

 

[fireford10]

definatly can see the resembelence of the Eagles.!! I hope someone finally sees this and knows exactly wht you found. I bet the mystery is killing you

 

[WVARelics]

Send Tom Slater at Heritage Auctions an email, they are fairly good at identifying things and getting back to you in a timely manner. Its usually a free service.
https://www.ha.com/c/acquisitions.zx?target=consign&txtConsignmentDirector=Tom Slater

Also check with Dana Linett at Early American History Auctions. BUT! They charge to identify if you don't decide to sell.
Early American - Home Page

 

[BuckleBoy]

You could make a stamp in silly putty and take a photo. No worries then about melted wax. That is a great find, and I hope we get an update!

It is on you now to do the research on this, because without provenance or identification it is just a nice fob. With provenance, it could be so much more. Research the history of the property you found it on, follow all leads, and then follow some more.

You dug the relic, and this is your responsibility. Find out as much as you possibly can. Contact all experts to see if they'd be willing to assist you.


Best Wishes,

Buck