on line spanish archives

I don't think so but I'm looking just the same. It would be great to see them putting the revenue they're getting from the Florida wrecks to good use. ;D

Pcola
 

Spain is not getting any revenue from Florida wrecks. Thats why they are so pissed. They will not put archival documents (except unimportant stuff) online because they want researchers to come to Spain and spend money.
 

salvor 6 said:
Spain is not getting any revenue from Florida wrecks. Thats why they are so pissed. They will not put archival documents (except unimportant stuff) online because they want researchers to come to Spain and spend money.
Click to expand...

My mistake...I thought I read a post recently where someone was talking about the Adams-Onis Treaty giving Spain essentially perpetual rights to salvage their wrecks in Florida after handing the territory over to the US. Is that still the case but we aren't honoring it?

thnx,

Pcola
 

Spain has always had the "right" to salvage their wrecks here, they just don't bother doing it. As for the archives, unless you know old Spanish (castillion I believe) plus a few other languages, the documents would do you no good. Even people who speak excellent modern Spanish cannot understand most of them. Guys like Gene Lyons, Jack Haskins, Walter Cardonas, and a few others spent their lives learning the language and translating the documents.

I have a few of the original translations regarding the 1715 fleet, but they were given to me with the understanding that they never left my hands. Basically, most of the data is contained within the many books written on the subject. If you are looking for a new wreck, get your checkbook out and contact one of the guys above. :D Unfortunately, there aren't many lined up to take their places.

Jason
 

there is more than one way to make money from wrecks ;) knowledge can pay very well folks often pay $10 and up for the mass marketed "1715 beach wreck books" books that have a small bit of info in many cases --- the knowledge that comes from rare books and maps and archive documents is highly valuible indeed --- ;D Ivan
 

Does anyone know of any of the 1715 ships passenger lists have ever been located?

I have the name of a pasenger, clergy, that sailed on the same ship from Vera Cruz to Havana and then to his death and am interested in positively identifying what ship he was on.
 

I looked up the Adams Onis Treaty. I found it very interesting. Thanks.


http://www.tamu.edu/ccbn/dewitt/adamonis.htm

The Adams­Onís Treaty sometimes referred to as The Florida Treaty was signed in Washington on February 22, 1819 and ratified by Spain October 24, 1820 and entered into force February 22, 1821. It terminated April 14,1903 by a treaty of July 3, 1902. The treaty was named for John Quincy Adams of the United States and Louis de Onís of Spain and renounced any claim of the United States to Texas. It fixed the western boundary of the Louisiana Purchase as beginning at the mouth of the Sabine River and running along its south and west bank to the thirty-second parallel and thence directly north to the Río Rojo (Red River).
 

Jim, I have a list of the deceased from the 1715 fleet. Which ships lost which people. If your passenger died on a 1715 wreck, I could probably find him. PM me a name, I may be interested in trading some data with you.
 

The following are archives outside of Spain. It's a long list, but worth it if you're a traveling researcher. I found this in my files. I have no idea where it came from - probably online years ago. If you know if there's any copyright, lemme know. Enjoy...


Archival Repositories In The Hispanic World Outside Spain.

In the Americas, since there was no one central authority, there is no one permanent repository. The governments of the Viceroys, of which there were eventually several, had the greatest power. The central location of the Viceroyalty of New Spain (Mexico) promoted the accumulation of data from many regions. It was the transit point for Far East contacts, provided ports for trade to Central and South America and, by means of Veracruz, served for several centuries as the gateway to Spain. For all these reasons, and despite a disastrous fire that destroyed most of the sixteenth and seventeenth century files, the Archivo General de la Nacion (Mexico City); is rich in maritime facts.

In the “.Marina;” section are 322 volumes of manuscripts. The subject matter is all things marine, ranging from the departure or arrival of ships, to contraband, piracy and shipwrecks. The principal ports documented are Veracruz, Acapulco, San Blas and Campeche. It is also important to note that while references to shipwrecks are abundant, the purported time frame (1578-1845) is largely a mirage.

In reality almost all colonial documents date from after 1750 and, thanks to commerce limiting wars and export inhibiting revolutions, the quality and quantity of shipwreck information rapidly deteriorates after 1800. A published guide to the first 57 volumes (into the early 1780’s) makes a rapid survey possible.

On the other end, volumes 289-322 deal with the period after independence. Communications in the volumes of the intermediate period (1785-1821) often come from the port of Veracruz; with San Blas coming in second. But it must be remembered that Veracruz authorities may be

relaying information from anywhere in the Caribbean, as could those in San Blas for the Pacific.

Almost identical to the Marina in time, and also a rich source of shipwreck information in its own right, the “ Correspondencia de Virreyes;” is well worth careful investigation. There are 345 volumes, divided into two chronologically parallel series of 286 and 59 volumes.

Excluding the years 1664 and 1665 for which volumes exist, the series begins in 1755 and continues until independence. Again the eighteenth century is best for for shipwreck data. Indices within the volumes, allows one to search this material very rapidly.

A third section, “ Correspondencia de Diveras Autoridades;,” has 68 volumes. Volumes 1 to 60 cover the period between 1755 and 1810 . The remainder go from 1823 to 1855. Indices are available for the early period and my survey of the initial 22 volumes located data on several shipwrecks.

The “ Archivo Hist�o de Hacienda;” is the only part of this archive where I have seen seventeenth century shipwreck data. It contains 3,489 volumes and ranges in time from 1576 to 1937. There are incomplete card catalogue indices for this section. Unfortunately the documentation is neither arranged chronologically nor according to any other criteria. There

is no easy or quick way to search these volumes.

Other Mexican References.

The Archivo de Notar� of the Federal District (Mexico City) occupies its own building in Mexico City. This was the capital for all of New Spain, and so the repository has material relevant for a vast area. The volumes of documents are organized chronologically and by notary. A published index for the documents of 1524-1528 can be searched for shipwreck data (Millares Carlo and Mantec�945). With other years, because of the huge number of volumes, only a highly focused search is likely to yield results.

Although all the major colonial port once had archives, very little is left of them in this last decade of the twentieth century. For the state of Veracruz notarial records dating from 1578 at.Xalapa; and from 1580 at Orizaba are kept in the Biblioteca Central of the Universidad Veracruzana; (Xalapa Veracruz). Military records, perhaps including shipping information, date from 1789 in the archive of the municipality of Veracruz..

Campeche; records begin at the very end of the colonial period (1820}. Archivo General del Estado de Campeche, and also Archivo Municipal of Ciudad Carmen. In Yucatan, there are colonial manuscripts dating from 1684 (Archivo General del Gobierno del Estado de Yucatan, Merida;). Some

of these may have shipping information.

The situation is hardly better on the Pacific coast, where nothing has survived at Acapulco or San Blas. The Archivo General del Estado de Colima does have records dating from the sixteenth century, but this coast had only minor maritime significance. The Archivo Hist�o del Estado de Jalisco (Guadalajara), which inherited the holdings of the old Audiencia de Guadalajara, also is said to date from the sixteenth century.

It should be important for western Mexico but these records are primarily for interior, not coastal, regions..



Central America

In what was once the Audiencia of Guatemala, the modern Mexican state of Chiapas and the countries of Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador, Nicaragua and Costa Rica, thanks to government regulations, colonial maritime traffic was of minor importance. Ships did leave northern Honduras with cargoes of silver, and small amounts of gold, but these ships were infrequent.

On the Pacific coast, ships were constructed at Realejo in what is now Nicaragua Acajutla; (El Salvador) was the most important port on the Pacific. Neither were major ports because the Spanish government did not encourage commerce between Mexican and South American ports.

In the entire region only three national colonial archives survived to the present day. That of Honduras {Tegucigalpa) is of little value because the colonial records are very few Costa Rica (San Jose) has extensive well organized and catalogued collections of documents from the

modern ministry of Guerra-Marina but its value for the colonial era is more problematical. Its map collections are potentially of interest. There is also shipwreck data, in connection with nineteenth century warfare, and in association with documents of the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries. But shipwreck documents are not separated from the rest of the manuscripts or placed in a separate section.

Guatemala

The old Audiencia de Guatemala archive, now the Archivo General de Centro America (Guatemala City), has many maritime manuscripts. There are manuscripts on routes, ships that visited its ports and shipwrecks in these waters. References to this material is concentrated in drawers 3-34, 3-35, 3-36, 3-38, 3-40, 3-48, 8-43, and 9-52 of the card catalogue. They are, except for few seventeenth entries, from the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries.

Most entries discuss the arrival or outfitting of ships rather than shipwrecks. Many of the few wreck citations are associated with the coast of Nicaragua (near Realejo). An extensive and careful search, through all the sixteenth and seventeenth century uncatalogued notarial records at this same repository has brought to light very little shipwreck data.

The AGCA is a huge repository with an enormous number of manuscripts; and it does have much on maritime commerce. But for the purposes of shipwreck research it is a tiny repository with only a limited number of manuscripts. The entire corpus of relevant data could be read by a single individual within the span of a week.

Panama.

Panama was different. This after all was the place where most of the South America precious metals were transhipped for transport to Spanish bound ports. No one can deny its importance for the treasure ships. Unfortunately it is extremely difficult to find any remnant of past paper.

The old Audiencia de Panama closed shop in the eighteenth century. Perhaps its records went to Bogota, Colombia. There certainly isn’t anything left in Panama. Indeed, as I learned several years ago, it is extremely difficult to find even nineteenth century manuscripts in the government archives. Archival research on colonial shipping is a waste of time in the Republic of Panama.

The Spanish Antilles

These are the islands of Cuba, Hispaniola, Puerto Rico, Trinidad,the peninsula of Florida and, until the seventeenth century, Jamaica.Cuba, especially the port of Havana, was extremely important as the last port of call for the treasure ships on their way back to Europe.

Here the fleets assembled and the last provisions were on loaded for the long voyage to Spain. The other islands were more likely to be visited by incoming ships.

Nevertheless both Hispaniola and Puerto Rico had a significant sixteenth century production of alluvial gold and Santo Domingo on the island of Hispaniola was the center of Hispanic government in the islands until the end of the eighteenth century. There were also Hispanic ships with significant cargos that were lost near all these islands during the centuries of Spanish rule. Hence, in theory, local archives should be important.

Jamaica, Trinidad and Hispaniola

It is easy to comment on the Hispanic archives of Jamaica and Trinidad they don’t exist. Oh, one will find a number of papers on Spanish Jamaica and Spanish Trinidad in the Archivo General de Indias but there does not appear to be any in these islands.

Administrative papers, which could contain references to shipwrecks, are said to be in the Archive of the Dukes de Veragua. Under the title of Marques of Jamaica; they were responsible for the government of the island in the years of Spanish rule. This private Madrid archive can only be consulted with the permission of the current Duke of Veragua. Just as the AGI has documents on Trinidad in its Audiencia de Caracas papers, which administered this island, there may be papers on Spanish Trinidad in the colonial archives of Venezuela;.

Hispaniola is just as bad. All official government records (in fifty-nine large crates) were sent to Havana when the island was abandoned by Spanish forces in 1795.A careful search in Santo Domingo, by our researchers, failed to uncover any useful information for the period before 1821 in the national archive of the Dominican Republic.

Puerto Rico

Puerto Rico has many colonial documents in the Archivo General de Puerto Rico (AGPR) and in local archives found throughout the island. In the AGPR “Fondo Documental de los Gobernadores Espa�s” one may find some shipwreck references. But most date from the nineteenth century. There is very little on the island from earlier periods. Eighteenth century Puerto Rico shipwreck data does exist in the Marina and Correspondencia de Virreyes; sections of the Archivo General de la Nacion (Mexico); and, for even earlier periods as well, at the AGI (Seville);.

Cuba

Established In 1857, as the Archivo General, it was a repository for the colonial departments of interior, treasury, war and marine. Several shipments of manuscripts were sent to Spain in 1888-1889. The AGI received 2,350 legajos pertaining to Cuba, Florida, Louisiana and South America. These are now known as the “Papeles de Cuba” section of the AGI. Another

transfer, in 1898, consisted of the files of the Spanish fleet; based in Cuban waters and the former Spanish provinces of North America, Mexico,

Central America and Puerto Rico.

Among the material remaining in Havana is the “Audiencia de Santo Domingo” section;, consisting of the remnants of those papers brought to the island in 1799. Its inventory lists 120 legajos ranging from about 1747 to 1800 and including material from the Antilles, Venezuela and Florida.

South America

Key ports for the Spanish fleets were Callao; on the Pacific and Cartagena in the Caribbean. Other localities, most notably Guayaquil,provided supplies and other support for these vessels. These are thelocalities whose authorities would be reporting on wrecks. Callao under the Audiencia de Lima, Guayaquil under the Audiencia de Quito and Cartagena under the Audiencia de Santa Fe, are well represented in the papers of the AGI..

Peru

For those who know when a wreck happened, the AGP should be useful, not only for the Peruvian coast, but also for the Chilean, Ecuadorian, Panama, Colombian and Argentine/Uruguayan coasts. All these regions were, for a time, under the jurisdiction of Lima. The manuscripts come from three separate repositories, two ( Archivo Hist�o and Archivo Hist�o del Hacienda) now are unified under a common administration as the Archivo Nacional del Peru. A third remains separate in the care of the Ministry of Foreign Relacions.

Lima

Fourteen volumes of Tribunal del Consulado papers, dating from 1613 to 1805, have been reported from this archive. A recent investigator reports that 40 vols. of consulado papers are missing from this disorganized collection of material from other archives. These are in large part government degrees and as such are less interesting for shipwreck research.

Ecuador

In Ecuador; there are no series of documents explicitly relating to colonial naval, or maritime, affairs. The port of Guayaquil; has few colonial documents of any type and the Archivo Nacional de Historia (Quito), as one might expect from an inland location, has no section on

naval affairs. There are, however, files that may include data on shipwrecks.

In these matters one would be wise to remember that from 1564 to 1717 the Audiencia de Quito; was under the jurisdiction of the Viceroy of Peru; and from 1717 to 1809 under the Viceroy of Santa Fe (Bogota). These were the jurisdictions most likely to be interested in ocean going traffic with Guayaquil.

Columbia

The Archivo Nacional de Colombia (Bogota); has several manuscripts groups that are of interest. In addition to the ones noted below, there is a section entitled Mapas y Planos; for between 100 north and 100 south latitude. Secci�V, which is “ Archivos Notariales;, has 2,067 volumes.

“ Marina” and “Consulados” volumes are likely to be the most useful but all of those listed could have value for shipwreck information. “Milicias y Marina;”, which has ship logs, maps and diagrams, has an unpublished inventory. Most of its manuscripts are from the eighteenth and

nineteenth centuries.

Aduanas; “refers to all commerce, interior and exterior, to contraband.. to the movement of foreign ships, dangers of attacks from pirates and their captures. Among the many papers of the “Real Hacienda,”

which has an unpublished inventory.

Vessels often first brought the riches of Peru from Panamanian ports to Cartagena;. Only then did the ships go forth to Havana and the European ports. Cartagena was shipping outlet for the Colombian.emeralds and gold of the interior. All this makes the paper output of this port very

interesting for nautical disasters.

The reports would come from their officials. And indeed the papers from this source, that ultimately were deposited in the Archive of the Indies, are very valuable. Claims that the archives of the city and port of Cartagena have entirely disappeared may not be entirely true. Reports dating from almost fifty years ago indicate that some protocolos from the colonial period still existed at that time.

Chile

The holdings of the.Archivo Nacional de Chile; lacks a section devoted to naval affairs in the early colonial period. There is an “Tribunal del Consulado”. It dates from 1648 to 1836 but few documents are earlier than 1795, the year when the Consulado was created in Chile.

The 1,089 volumes of the Archivo de la Capitan�General begin in 1576, but then there are no further documents until 1643. There is a inventory for this section which continues until 1810. THIS is a repository for whatever affairs came to the office of the Captain General. Documents on shipwrecks will only form a small portion of the total.
 

darren in nc ---I must say you have been doing a bit of research now haven't you--- ;D---good job---Ivan
 

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