Old Printing Plate?

[WHADIFIND]

UPDATE: NEW PICS


Dug this rather large piece from about 12 inches down. Seemed out of place for the field, but who knows what might have been used to fill in across the years.

The pics show it's measurements. It's non-magnetic, weighs about a half pound, appears to be a tile back with a copper/tin/bronze plated front.




This last one, I dampened the surface a bit to show the figures better.


Any ideas?

Thanks!

HH!

 

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[WHADIFIND]

UPDATE

I suspected this one might be a challenge. Here's a couple new pics. Let me know what else I can do to help.




At the top left is the head of one of the figures. Unless my eyes are playing tricks, he appears to be wearing a cap.
The next picture is through a loupe. There is a sort of texturing to the print. If you look close you can see the fine background design in the plate.




This is a close up of the lower left area, you can see the texture better there.

I'm thinking this might be a plate for a special occasion or maybe for a brand. There are cows so, maybe, beef? Dairy?
I'm not sure, but I think I'm seeing a possible blue ribbon toward the bottom of the 2nd cow??


Any and all help appreciated.

HH!

 

[Breezie]

Yes, I agree with you that it is some type of printing plate probably for an advertisement of either dairy products, ice cream, cow feed or similar. You might want to GOOGLE vintage ads/signs for De Laval, Borden's, Blue Ribbon Feed & Supplies, Meadowland, Hershey's, etc. Interesting find Breezie

 

[WHADIFIND]

Yes, I agree with you that it is some type of printing plate probably for an advertisement of either dairy products, ice cream, cow feed or similar. You might want to GOOGLE vintage ads/signs for De Laval, Borden's, Blue Ribbon Feed & Supplies, Meadowland, Hershey's, etc. Interesting find Breezie

Yep, I think it's a plate also, especially now that I've been able to see a little more detail.
I'm thinking, that this size plate would be for a logo, advertisement, brochure. What I'm hoping is that someone with
better eyes than mine, will recognize the pattern. With cows in it, hopefully someone with milk bottle experience might see something.

It's not too often that I get this feeling, but this piece is talking to me. It's trying to tell me it's special. But, HOW!?!

I'm really afraid to try cleaning it, afraid I might ruin something significant.
Any thoughts on that? Anybody!?

Come on experts! I really need help on this one!!


Thanks Breezie!

HH!

 

[Breezie]

Many times, items like this are like 'clouds,' in that one person sees one thing and someone else sees another. I tried to trace out the lines, and basically it looks like 3 people and animals; the one on the right looks like a bull. Hopefully someone else will come in and let us know what they see in the 'clouds.' Breezie

 

[WHADIFIND]

Many times, items like this are like 'clouds,' in that one person sees one thing and someone else sees another. I tried to trace out the lines, and basically it looks like 3 people and animals; the one on the right looks like a bull. Hopefully someone else will come in and let us know what they see in the 'clouds.' Breezie

I'm afraid that is mostly because of my ineptitude at photos. If you see it in person, it's pretty obvious that there are three people and three cows. The one on the far left is missing the piece of that has his cow's head. The one person's head, top left close ups, looks like he's either wearing a cap or maybe a riding helmet/hat.

I'll work on trying to get some clearer pics.

Thanks Breezie!

 

[WHADIFIND]

Many times, items like this are like 'clouds,' in that one person sees one thing and someone else sees another. I tried to trace out the lines, and basically it looks like 3 people and animals; the one on the right looks like a bull. Hopefully someone else will come in and let us know what they see in the 'clouds.' Breezie

View attachment 718741

Here's another where I moistened the figures just a bit. You can't tell from the pics too well, but the figures are facing forward and I can see what looks like a cap sort of hat on the first figure on the left. Also, the cow's head is missing on the first figure from the left. One more thing, the figures' lower portions on their legs are visible in person but just barely. I couldn't capture them in the pic.

Click on the pic for a larger version.

Hope it helps.

 

[Breezie]

That's a much better pic, and I can see the 3 men and cows/bulls. Does it look like they are riding them or standing beside them? The only advertisement I can remember where a man was riding a bull was a Bull Durham poster, and it was only 1 man on a bull. Could the man on the left be on a horse? Breezie

 

[skeeterd]

I think they're standing beside them. It kinda looks like people showing cattle.

 

[WHADIFIND]

That's a much better pic, and I can see the 3 men and cows/bulls. Does it look like they are riding them or standing beside them? The only advertisement I can remember where a man was riding a bull was a Bull Durham poster, and it was only 1 man on a bull. Could the man on the left be on a horse? Breezie

They are definitely standing beside the animals. The one on the left is missing the head of the cow/bull. They seem to be wearing some sort of hat. Best seen on the first figure.

I'm thinking this would be a pretty big stamping. Maybe a poster? Large newspaper ad? Brochure? I just don't know. The pattern just isn't familiar to me.
I'm thinking this would be from around 1850-1920. Wonder if the make up of the material would help to determine? It is rather hefty at a half pound.

I'm still afraid to clean it much.

Thanks for helping!

 

[WHADIFIND]

I think they're standing beside them. It kinda looks like people showing cattle.

That's my take too.

Thanks for the help. I'll go crazy if I don't figure this out!

 

[skeeterd]

Where did you find it? Maybe it hasn't traveled too far from where it was used!

 

[Breezie]

Okay, now that we have determined they are standing beside the cows/bulls, how about an advertisement for 4-H, Boy Scouts, a State or county fair, or a cattle auction? Also, it could be an advertisement poster for a movie. Westerns were really popular years ago. You said it was 'talking' to you, perhaps you saw a movie poster with this logo/ad.

WhatIFind, are you scared to clean it because the metal is falling off? Is it brittle? When you say the cow/bull on the left is missing its head, did it fall off the plate or is it so positioned, the horns do not show? The animal on the left looks like a horse to me, but you're looking at it in person. I can't see where there is a space/place where the horns would have been.

Breezie

 

[WHADIFIND]

Okay, now that we have determined they are standing beside the cows/bulls, how about an advertisement for 4-H, a State or county fair, or a cattle auction? Also, it could be an advertisement poster for a movie. Westerns were really popular years ago.

WhatIFind, are you scared to clean it because the metal is falling off? Is it brittle? When you say the cow/bull on the left is missing its head, did it fall off the plate or is it so positioned, the horns do not show? The animal on the left looks like a horse to me, but you're looking at it in person. I can't see where there is a space/place where the horns would have been.

Breezie

All of those things are good possibilities! I was hoping it might be associated with a Dairy of some sort. Might be recognized as a logo.

Why am I afraid? Well, at first, I was thinking I might not be able to prove it was old. You know, like coins? We have it bludgeoned into us, "you NEVER! NEVER! NEVER! clean coins!!!!". But, thinking about it now, this thing is going to be of an old something or other, no matter how clean it gets. As long as I don't lose details.

As to the missing cow's head, the plate appears to had been damaged. Maybe why it got tossed. But, this thing is fairly substantial. Weighs in at a half pound. Not very brittle at all. The plate is raised from the backing in a couple places, but it's overall pretty solid. I guess they had to be pretty strong to stand up to the printing press.

I'm unsure what the materials are in it's make up. I'm seeing green patina so I figure copper's involved. But, all that said, I'm unsure just how to go about trying to clean it up. The lower portions of their legs are present in that bottom part but they are VERY light! Can barely see them in person. I'd hate to attempt cleaning and hurt the piece.

I'm open to suggestion. Maybe a hot peroxide bath? Seems to work on pennies.

Happy New Year!

 

[WHADIFIND]

Where did you find it? Maybe it hasn't traveled too far from where it was used!

I am currently working with local historical peoples to see if we can uncover it's origin. (Not just letting the wonderful experts here do all the work. LOL

I'll keep everyone apprised of how that goes. Was just hoping someone would recognize the pattern.

Thanks!

Happy New Year!

 

[Breezie]

Cleaning is entirely up to you, but will cleaning allow you to see the entire image or better image details? If so, and you want to find out what it is, cleaning is probably the only answer. As far as patina is concerned, I don't think a printing plate would be one that value would hinge on being cleaned or not cleaned unless it was a 'famous' plate; eg. a lithograph plate of a famous artist, etc.

The easiest household products to use to clean copper is warm vinegar, salt, and a soft toothbrush. Lemon juice and salt could also be used, and is quicker. I would never use these on a coin or an item that patina was important, but this maybe the only way to know what you have.

Be sure to answer Skeeter's question about where it was found. That may help to ID too.

I look forward to seeing it cleaned. Breezie

 

[WHADIFIND]

Cleaning is entirely up to you, but will cleaning allow you to see the entire image or better image details? If so, and you want to find out what it is, cleaning is probably the only answer. As far as patina is concerned, I don't think a printing plate would be one that value would hinge on being cleaned or not cleaned unless it was a 'famous' plate; eg. a lithograph plate of a famous artist, etc.

The easiest household products to use to clean copper is warm vinegar, salt, and a soft toothbrush. Lemon juice and salt could also be used, and is quicker. I would never use these on a coin or an item that patina was important, but this maybe the only way to know what you have.

Be sure to answer Skeeter's question about where it was found. That may help to ID too.

I look forward to seeing it cleaned. Breezie

I will experiment with a few cleaning techniques I do have, maybe, who knows?
I don't even know how to tell what type of printing this goes to, you wouldn't know would you?

As far as where, well, I don't usually give away where as I just "might" want to hunt some more. LOL

Still, as my profile says, "just" south of the line.

I'll keep you in the loop as things turn up. (literally )

HH!

 

[nhbenz]

If you plan to clean it with vinegar and salt then Ketchup works great, as it has plenty of those ingredients plus the benefit of holding itself in place for an even cleansing (I use it on copper bottomed pots and pans). And I agree with Breezie that the value likely isn't significant, especially broken/incomplete, so cleaning it wouldn't decrease it much.
As to the animal on the left I believe it is a calf, looking to the right, as I've attempted to show (the way I'm seeing it) below.

I'm curious as to what the area on the right is showing, which has a vertical line portion (too straight to be man or beast)

 

[WHADIFIND]

If you plan to clean it with vinegar and salt then Ketchup works great, as it has plenty of those ingredients plus the benefit of holding itself in place for an even cleansing (I use it on copper bottomed pots and pans). And I agree with Breezie that the value likely isn't significant, especially broken/incomplete, so cleaning it wouldn't decrease it much.
As to the animal on the left I believe it is a calf, looking to the right, as I've attempted to show (the way I'm seeing it) below. View attachment 718980

I'm curious as to what the area on the right is showing, which has a vertical line portion (too straight to be man or beast)

Well, with my eyes, it could be most anything! But, it I can see how it might be a calf. The line on the right, not sure, my impression is it's a combination of the man and beast's legs. Maybe to show perspective?

I'll try a bit of cleaning and see.

Thanks for your help!

Happy New Year!

HH!

 

[lastleg]

You are afraid to give the location? Scared a mob of metaldetectives will swarm the area looking for printing plates?

Not likely. Check the newspapers, take it to a printer if you can find one to see if that is what you have. It isn't bronze,
that would be too expensive for an ad. Better yet research old printing plates to see what they were made from. There
may be collectors of antique printing paraphenalia that could help. The plates I have seen had wooden bases so I'm not
sure that's what you have.