Old Button - Unknown backmark and design

[Don in SJ]

I usually clean ALL my buttons, you just never know what the crud is hiding and in this case before cleaning, I thought it was a typical flat cuff sized button from around 1800-1830 time frame.

But upon cleaning a two lettered impressed backmark of WN showed and that is unusual. then after cleaning most of the dirt off the front, I decided to try lemon juice and to my delight there was some gilt left and it had a design!

Most small cuff buttons are plain so I was happy to see a design and a backmark, now trying to date the button by the backmark came to a dead end for me I can find noone of that time frame or earlier who had those initials.

Also, the design has impressed in six pointed stars in circles, and I believe I see what looks like tail feathers?

Open for suggestions on the design and age of button and who the heck was WN?

I believe this might possibly be a late 1700's or early 1800's political button of some type...

don

 

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[JimInPhilly]

Don,
Nice button. Are you sure there is not a letter between the W and N ?... Hope you can get it clean without lifting the surface off, good luck...Definitely looks colonial.

 

[CRUSADER]

All I can add is I think you hunch right - late 18th century, based on the pattern type

 

[nebstater]

Can't help you on the ID of the button, but I'm not convinced that the letters on the back are W N. It looks to me like a W V. Have you tried looking up those initials? The part that turned the V into an N appears to be a scratch to the button. Hope you are able to have it identified. Nice find.

 

[Don in SJ]

I am fairly certain it is WN, on another forum, someone posted a silver gilted button with WN on the back also, I have not seen the photograph of the WN, but willing to say it sort of qualifies this as WN. Looking at the backmark straight on, it is without a doubt WN in my opinion.
Don

 

[ivan salis]

that flat button with straight attached ring to back design type was normally used 1780's thru about 1830's era -- most archie types woud see it and "rough date" the area about 1800 with a 20 year "window" on each side ---1780 to 1820--- although it could have been made later of course using the old style type design from that time frame.

 

[Montana Jim]

I see WN

I also found some silver makers marks as "W.N" but I'm possitive the time frame is completely different.

Nice button Don!

 

[West Jersey Detecting]

Don this button was found in South Eastern Burlington County a while back. To date it is the only plated button I have found. It appears to have the same makers mark.

 

[West Jersey Detecting]

Don,

Upon closer investigation, it appears that my WN button may also have a design with tail feathers. It is the button on the right. Look at the button at the 7:00 position and see if you see it as well. Unfortunately the only picture I have is not a high resolution picture so I could only go to 200% before I lost resolution. The button measures 20.64 mm.

A little background that may help. It was found near an 1836 LC, the gilted button pictured (no makers mark, just the word GILT). I also found a clay pipe stem that I can date to circa 1780-1800 by the bore hole size. There were many other artifacts, none which I feel important enough to mention. I have been meaning to return to the site but it is some distance from my home. I would like to get there soon, before the foliage begins to grow in mid April

 

[West Jersey Detecting]

Don,

I saw this one posted on another forum from someone in WV. He does not actually say he DUG the button; if you ask me it looks more like an antique store find. But he does say it is marked "PLATED" with the WN backmark.

 

[Montana Jim]

Right from a 1999 T-Net post: http://www.treasurenet.com/forum/relichunting/archives/19990906/messages/1000751.shtml

"After further cleaning, I have found that this button is inscribed with :

SHEFFIELD * WN * PLATED"

also... another source... http://www.localhistories.org/sheffield.html

"During the 19th century the old industries like iron continued to boom. In 1856 Thomas Bessemer invented a way of producing better quality steel. In 1858 he began producing steel in Sheffield. Button making flourished. However in 1840 a way was found to make silver plate by electroplating replacing the old Sheffield plate. Cutlery continued to be the dominant industry in Sheffield."

Who knows?

 

[Montana Jim]

Montana Jim's reply led me to this:

William Nowill
in partnership with John Nowill
Sheffield 1835 hallmark

See my post way above... I found that silver mark and blew it off... LOL However now with the Sheffield reference I can see a button dude silver plating his buttons.

 

[West Jersey Detecting]

Jim's reply led me to the hallmarks of English Silver. I hope this helps:

http://www.silvercollection.it/englishsilvermarksWD.html http://www.silvercollection.it/ENGLISHSILVERMARKSXWTRE.html#321ING

WN (William Napier [ G ]) 18th c./2nd half
WN (William Nolan [ D ]) 19th c./1st half
WN (William Nowill in partnership with John Nowill [ S ]) 19th c./1st half)

 

[ivan salis]

hummm william nowill (WN--- hall mark ) silversmith from sheffield england --- known mark 1835 *--- button type common in useage during that time frame --- so --- best guess is a silver plated button from the sheffield england silversmith william nowill about 1835 ish . --- nice find .

 

[Don in SJ]

hummm william nowill (WN--- hall mark ) silversmith from sheffield england --- known mark 1835 *--- button type common in useage during that time frame --- so --- best guess is a silver plated button from the sheffield england silversmith william nowill about 1835 ish . --- nice find .

I think Neil's button would be the one you mention, mine, I think is not the same manufacturer, also mine is gold gilt with circled 6 pointed stars, the one neil has hard to say but on another forum there is a nice photo of a PLATED WN button like Neil's that is not similar to mine. Totally different type of backmarks, shanks and design type.



Don

 

[ivan salis]

buttons of this type can be tricky -- the flat design which was highly popular 1780 to 1830 still was made later due to its simple design -- gilting and silver plating were common look improvers -- and many differant "puff" terms were used by british button makers to tout their quality --

 

[West Jersey Detecting]

hummm william nowill (WN--- hall mark ) silversmith from sheffield england --- known mark 1835 *--- button type common in useage during that time frame --- so --- best guess is a silver plated button from the sheffield england silversmith william nowill about 1835 ish . --- nice find .

I think Neil's button would be the one you mention, mine, I think is not the same manufacturer, also mine is gold gilt with circled 6 pointed stars, the one neil has hard to say but on another forum there is a nice photo of a PLATED WN button like Neil's that is not similar to mine. Totally different type of backmarks, shanks and design type.



Don,
If you ask me, I think the makers mark looks the same, however I would agree that the buttons are different; perhaps the same maker, but yours possibly 50 or so years older?

I would like to see the PLATED WN button on the other forum if you could provide the link.

Thanks!

Don