Old Brass Plate or Bowl. Pottery Fragment, and Possible Trigger guard fragment.

[bonepicker]

Been hunting a very old area that has yielded French colonial coppers and Spanish cobs.
Musket-balls, brass square nails/spikes, flat buttons, and even a 1812 Regimental Script I Pewter button.
The site and some finds go all the way back to the 1720s.

The other day I dug a brass plate in a hole that had lots of broken glass, bricks, and a old wine bottle base.
The plate/bowl in question is about 6.5" wide and about an inch tall.

Was wondering if anyone could possibly date this bowl by looking at the design/style that it was made.
Really excited about this bowl, especially if it goes back to 1812 or 1720's era.

Also adding a pottery fragment that I think the design looks very old. Any ideas on age or type?

Also adding a pic of a unknown brass piece that kind of looks like its part of an ornate trigger guard. (pictured beside a large brass spike). Any ideas on age or what it could be from? The cob is for scale. Its a 1/2R.

Thanks for looking.

 

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[Old Pueblo]

I dont know about the bowl, but it is old! And if its brass, it would be cool piece to have straightened out.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Definitely the broken-off "strap" end (not its name, just a descriptive term) of a Flintlock musket's brass trigger guard. The tombstone-shaped tang with a small hole fit up into a slot in the gunstock, where it was held in place by a pin through the tang. Somebody who knows more about Flintlock firearms than I do may be able to give you a specific ID for your trigger guard piece.

 

[bonepicker]

Definitely the broken-off "strap" end (not its name, just a descriptive term) of a Flintlock musket's brass trigger guard. The tombstone-shaped tang with a small hole fit up into a slot in the gunstock, where it was held in place by a pin through the tang. Somebody who knows more about Flintlock firearms than I do may be able to give you a specific ID for your trigger guard piece.

Thanks CannonballGuy. I was thinking trigger guard, but wasn't really sure. Its nice to get some confirmation on that. Now id love to know what era.

 

[HuntinDog]

Your pan/plate/lid maybe a confederate mess plate.
I found one a while back and have seen them posted before.
There is a site for reproductions to compare, but I couldn't find it.
Great finds

 

[DCMatt]

Blockade Runner Civil War Sutler Suttlery Page 26 Tin ware, cups plates boilers muckets. 1-25-17

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

I absolutely MUST comment that during the civil war there was no such thing as a "Confederate mess plate." The Confederate army did not issue "mess equipment" such as plates, eating-utensils, etc) to the troops. It was very much a "bring your own" situation. That's why civil war soldiers would commonly do things like cut a canteen in half to make meal plates. There would be no need to do that if plates were being issued to them. The relic-dealer at the website linked by DCMatt is simply applying his own naming onto those relics. I'm objecting because the name "Confederate mess plate" implies a Military-issued piece of equipment. For example, 20th-Century US army mess equipment. For example, take a look through the US Army History site's .pdf document on US Army Field Mess Gear, at:
http://www.history.army.mil/html/mus...d_Jul09%29.pdf
Reading the official US Army .pdf document, you will note that the civil war US Army did not issue any "mess plates" either. According to the document, the first standardized US Army issue of mess cups and plates occurred in 1874. Also, quoting directly from the official document:
"Prior to 1874, procurement of eating utensils (knife, fork, and spoon) was up to the individual soldier. On some occasions, such items were, purchased and distributed by a benevolent commander, purchased by company funds, or in the case of a volunteer regiment, contributed by a support organization at home. Such cases were, however, the exception rather than the norm."

Your find is a plate made for civilian use... it may have been utilized by a soldier, who may have also brought along a fork and spoon from home, or purchased them from a Sutler. The Confederate army did not purchase such items from a manufacturer and issue them to troops.

 

[HuntinDog]

DCMatt,
That is the site I referred to.

TheCannonBallGuy,
I'm sorry I should have clarified my statement.
I only used that "confederate mess plate" because of the web site and to maybe help with the search.
And I'm sorry to have perpetrated a misconception of the plates.
I know the one that I found wasn't from the CW as it was found in the West.
Most likely GoldRush though as it was found in a Goldrush camp with earlier dated finds.

My apologies to all who I my have mislead.

 

[Fullstock]

The piece of trigger guard is from the rear portion of the guard behind the bow. It is from an early fowling piece. Hard to say exact year, but most likely 18th into early 19th century.