Oddball Fat Nosed English Penny?

[Michigan Badger]

Here's one of my finds out of the junk box.

Looks kind of like a 1700's English 1/2 penny (same size) but it's weird.

Any ideas appreciated. Token?

The reverse has detail but my camera didn't pick it up.

Badger

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

How to Research for Treasure Hunting and Metal Detecting From Lead Generation to Vetting - Grab it through Amazon!

[romeo-1]

Blacksmith token...nice find!

 

[Michigan Badger]

Blacksmith token...nice find!

I'm not familiar with these. Can you tell us a little more about them?

Thanks,

Badger

 

[romeo-1]

These were contemporary counterfeits made by unscrupulous blacksmiths...some are quite valuable and rare...you may want to research this one...

 

[Michigan Badger]

These were contemporary counterfeits made by unscrupulous blacksmiths...some are quite valuable and rare...you may want to research this one...

You mean they date back to the 1700's, or in other words, American colonial minted pennies?

 

[romeo-1]

I just checked my book...it is an imitation British Regal blacksmith token...it's in very good condition as well...do you have a pic of the other side?

BTW...if the bust had been facing left you would have a new detector there...facing right in this condition is still worth at least $100...in my opinion.

 

[romeo-1]

These were contemporary counterfeits made by unscrupulous blacksmiths...some are quite valuable and rare...you may want to research this one...

You mean they date back to the 1700's, or in other words, American colonial minted pennies?

...most common in the 1820s...

 

[Mackaydon]

Blacksmith Tokens -- a funny series, the story relayed by McLachlan is that many of these were struck by a Montreal blacksmith who, whenever he felt the need for imbibing at the local tavern, would make up whatever change would satisfy his appetite’s needs. The designs and lettering on the dies were purposely left only half finished so that the resulting token would appear to be well worn with only a little of the original detail left. These extremely crude tokens were sometimes struck with the image and wording backwards as the diesinkers were evidently so dimwitted as not to realize that the die needed to be made in reverse.

http://www.glencoin.com/presentation_to_glendale_coin_club.htm

More on Blacksmith Tokens can be found here:
http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache...mith+Token"&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us&ie=UTF-8

Don.....

 

[Iron Patch]

Looks like BL-37, common and not worth much. Still cool to find. I had a very nice nondug one before, the bust is quite unique and it stands out everytime I see it.... assuming I'm right.

 

[Iron Patch]

Here ya go.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Canada-Blacksmi...yZ149940QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[Michigan Badger]

Here ya go.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Canada-Blacksmi...yZ149940QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Ya, I believe you hit it.

The history is the thing I'm really concerned about anyway. Value wise it's worth more than the average pulltab

So it's worth maybe $10. Guess I can't retire yet.

Badger

 

[Michigan Badger]

Blacksmith Tokens -- a funny series, the story relayed by McLachlan is that many of these were struck by a Montreal blacksmith who, whenever he felt the need for imbibing at the local tavern, would make up whatever change would satisfy his appetite’s needs. The designs and lettering on the dies were purposely left only half finished so that the resulting token would appear to be well worn with only a little of the original detail left. These extremely crude tokens were sometimes struck with the image and wording backwards as the diesinkers were evidently so dimwitted as not to realize that the die needed to be made in reverse.

http://www.glencoin.com/presentation_to_glendale_coin_club.htm

More on Blacksmith Tokens can be found here:
http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache...mith+Token"&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us&ie=UTF-8

Don.....

Thanks much for your work on this!

Very cool.

Love the history!

Badger

 

[Michigan Badger]

These were contemporary counterfeits made by unscrupulous blacksmiths...some are quite valuable and rare...you may want to research this one...

You mean they date back to the 1700's, or in other words, American colonial minted pennies?

...most common in the 1820s...

Thanks man!

Great work and I really appreciate it

 

[Don in SJ]

Actually it is now thought that Blacksmith coppers for the most part were not made by Blacksmiths in Canada, that most were made in token and button factories in England and were purposely made very worn since they would have to be to pass off as possible legit coinage so many decades after the issuance of coppers.(1800's-1850's).

Ref: Notre Dame website and "Forgotten Coins of the North American Colonies" by W Anton & B Kesse

Don

 

[Iron Patch]

Actually it is now thought that Blacksmith coppers for the most part were not made by Blacksmiths in Canada, that most were made in token and button factories in England and were purposely made very worn since they would have to be to pass off as possible legit coinage so many decades after the issuance of coppers.(1800's-1850's).

Ref: Notre Dame website and "Forgotten Coins of the North American Colonies" by W Anton & B Kesse

Don

I'm going to follow up on that one because there are two things to me that don't make sense with that theory.

1) Blacksmith coppers are much more common in Ontario and Quebec than they are on the east coast. In fact, I have never found one, or know anyone else who has. On the other hand i know someone in ON that has dug two in the last year and that's in maybe a dozen old coins. If these were produced in Britain I would think they would have made there way to my part of Canada. I quickly looked over the book but it doesn't seem to go into more detail than just making the guess.

2) The second thing is rarely see a blacksmith token sold from the UK. More English counterfeits than I could ever count, even evasions in the hundreds, but very seldom a blacksmith. (oddly other than the exception of the one posted to start this thread) No doubt there has been some I didn't see, but I know they are not in very high numbers.

 

[Michigan Badger]

2) The second thing is rarely see a blacksmith token sold from the UK. More English counterfeits than I could ever count, even evasions in the hundreds, but very seldom a blacksmith. (oddly other than the exception of the one posted to start this thread)

I was kind of surprized to see one go so cheap on ebay.

Seems like they ought to be worth more than 6 stinkin bucks!

Oh well, we dig a lot of Canada loot here in northern, Michigan. Their large cents from the 1800's are very common (at least in my area).

I was bummed out when I found out most are nearly worthless to collectors.

Badger

 

[Iron Patch]

2) The second thing is rarely see a blacksmith token sold from the UK. More English counterfeits than I could ever count, even evasions in the hundreds, but very seldom a blacksmith. (oddly other than the exception of the one posted to start this thread)

I was kind of surprized to see one go so cheap on ebay.

Seems like they ought to be worth more than 6 stinkin bucks!

Oh well, we dig a lot of Canada loot here in northern, Michigan. Their large cents from the 1800's are very common (at least in my area).

I was bummed out when I found out most are nearly worthless to collectors.

Badger

Yeah you definitely found the wrong one of those to score some loot on. But it was one never the less, one more than I've been able to find in a lot of digging.