Not sure what button this is

[petroguy3666]

Hi, I am hoping someone can tell me what this is, I dug it up at a rev war site in new jersey. I found this continental army button and this mold, which I think is a button mold and this smaller button. This smaller button looks like it has a eagle with a shield in the middle. All 3 of these were within a foot of each other under a bush. I know it all real, just because of the place I found them. I added a picture of a button mold from a book called the Revolutionary Soldier. It seems to look like what I found, but hearing from some of you who know a lot more than I do would make me feel a lot better. The smaller button is a total question mark, I haven't seen anything out there that I can match it with, please any info would be really great.
Thanx,
Rick

 

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[nhbenz]

Great stuff! At the bottom of this link they show a button with the R.R.N. that would be like what your button mold makes (not sure if its the same size though): http://www.reenactor.ru/ARH/PDF/Calver.pdf
They feel that the crown isn't the British one, whereas these folks think it is: https://www.nyhistory.org/exhibit/uniform-buttons-cloth-fragments-sleeve-links-and-slug-frame
Interesting for sure! Although of course its not the piece you were asking about, sorry.
Welcome to TreasureNet!

 

[Iron Patch]

Does look like a mold, and what a shame that particular button is listed under... Unidentified & Misc. American buttons. Had it been a known Rev War button, it would be an incredible find. Still a good one though.

 

[Iron Patch]

Looks like your unknown pewter is a mourning button. (many different types)

 

[nhbenz]

Agreed, it seems it must be a variety of mourning button... Sure looked like a beak and a tail on it!

I have some naive questions regarding button molds: Did the British make some of their buttons here? I've read that prior to the war they didn't allow manufacture of such things here, but then again this wasn't a mass production mold. But have other British button molds been found here? (yes, naive as mentioned). And finally, does it imply anything about who's buttons it was making (British or Patriot) that it was found here?

 

[petroguy3666]

You guys have great info, knowing that there was no british soldiers there and this park was where the continental army came, around 13,000, and stayed for 2 years, from 1779-1780. I feel this would have to be from the patriots, don't you? I know there was a lot of fighting with the townspeople and there was loyalists who where there. The best thing about this park I found it in, is anything you find, is the real deal. Its hard to get into where I was and even harder to get to these.
It does look like a mourning button, or some type of one, are they common, I have never seen them before.
What I was wanting to now is, if its been documented that the button that matches my mold was found in ny, wouldn't that mean that it is a rev war button mold?

 

[petroguy3666]

You guys are a wealth of info, its humbling when I see what you guys know and the stuff that you find. Finding this mold there in Morristown and going on the premise that I know its 100% real, wouldn't we think it has to be some soldier that was at Morristown either made this mold or was carrying it.?

 

[petroguy3666]

The mourning button that you are talking about, is that a Washington type mourning button. The reason I ask is Washington was alive while they were there in Morristown. I don't know, I am just thinking, I am just loving the info from you guys

 

[Iron Patch]

You guys have great info, knowing that there was no british soldiers there and this park was where the continental army came, around 13,000, and stayed for 2 years, from 1779-1780. I feel this would have to be from the patriots, don't you? I know there was a lot of fighting with the townspeople and there was loyalists who where there. The best thing about this park I found it in, is anything you find, is the real deal. Its hard to get into where I was and even harder to get to these.
It does look like a mourning button, or some type of one, are they common, I have never seen them before.
What I was wanting to now is, if its been documented that the button that matches my mold was found in ny, wouldn't that mean that it is a rev war button mold?

It's tough to say who lost what and exactly when because the Colonial period years far out number the Revolutionary War period, so a lot happened before the war, and the change in the history books didn't change something like a shoe buckle... was the same buckle in 1760 as it was in 1776. So applied to your finds both the urn button and button mold could have been taken over from Britain, but then used by the Cont. Army... so what you have is sort of a mixture of what they are... Not issued or made for the Rev War, but used it in. The mold certainly has an interesting story even if it's listed as an unknown, and I think there's something to be said for a good mystery. As for a George Washington connection chances are it could have been created for that purpose, but he died in 1799 which is quite a few years after the Revolution so you can't really have it both ways... saying this is definitely a Rev War period site, but in the same sentence this is a George Washington mourning button. The area could easily have Rev War and a GW button like that, but that also means that's a much larger time frame and opens the door to the possibility of post war stuff.... but that is pretty much the case with anywhere we hunt. I would say the urn buttons if dug in the U.S. could be GW related, but I don't think you'll get a definitely ID as I don't believe the Cobb collection had one, even though he had a Long Live the King button which is actually a George III button. But a lot of people like them, and like I said I think made for GW makes total sense, but it's not like your USA button where you know without question. Anyway, that is what came off the top of my head for whatever it's worth.

 

[petroguy3666]

That does make a lot of sense, thank you. Do you think that the little button I was asking about is a mourning button? I am happy knowing the origins of the mold I have, the fact I found these 3 items where I did, it just makes sense that it came from a soldier. Its hard when you cant go into detail because of where I found it, but its just to much of a coincidence. Its that little button I just cant figure out, It look like a mourning button, but the fact I found it within a foot of the mold and USA button, under this bush/rock foundation. I don't know, that's why I am looking to you guys, who know ALOT more than I do.
This is a really a fantastic site.

 

[Iron Patch]

That does make a lot of sense, thank you. Do you think that the little button I was asking about is a mourning button? I am happy knowing the origins of the mold I have, the fact I found these 3 items where I did, it just makes sense that it came from a soldier. Its hard when you cant go into detail because of where I found it, but its just to much of a coincidence. Its that little button I just cant figure out, It look like a mourning button, but the fact I found it within a foot of the mold and USA button, under this bush/rock foundation. I don't know, that's why I am looking to you guys, who know ALOT more than I do.
This is a really a fantastic site.

Appears to be a urn on it, so I would say yes, it's a mourning button. Now whether it was for George II, George III, or GW, that is anyone's guess.

 

[petroguy3666]

Oh I think I didn't explain it right, the mold is R.N.N on it, not URN, that's why I was confused when you said it wasn't a identified button. But, I was also asking about the little button with the shank that I showed along with the USA button. I know what the USA button is, and now thanx to your help, starting to know about the mold, but the little button, it looks like a little eagle with a shield in it, is that a mourning button. I displayed a pic off all 3 finds on the top of this thread. I found all three of these together in one spot.

 

[petroguy3666]

I am slowly getting it, forgive me, so now I know what your talking about with the urn, but with the mold, isn't that RNN button you showed my in the book the same as the mold I found

 

[sutphin]

PETROGUY DANG NICE BUTTON AND MOLD .

 

[petroguy3666]

Thanx, I am still unsure about the little 1, everyone here has been such a huge help with this, much thanx to all